Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => HONEYBEE REMOVAL => Topic started by: iddee on March 18, 2009, 05:32:17 pm

Title: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 18, 2009, 05:32:17 pm
If you aren't tired of my trap out posts yet, maybe you will be after this one. I am starting a trap from a house and will post as it goes along.

 (http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0014.jpg)

It started last fall, but I convinced the owner to wait until spring. When I quoted him a price, I added the cost of building the platform. He decided to build it himself. I went today and helped him set it up.

 (http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0017.jpg)
 (http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0016.jpg)
I will take a frame of eggs and a hive tomorrow or Saturday and set the cone. I will post again at that time. I will then check it 24 to 48 hours later to see if they have found an alternative entrance. The owner has agreed to do the weekly check and call me from the site, to save my travel charges.

Robo and Beemaster, if this is going to take up too much space, let me know and I'll stop.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Robo on March 18, 2009, 06:37:08 pm
Robo and Beemaster, if this is going to take up too much space, let me know and I'll stop.

We would be doing a great disservice to our members if we told you to stop......This is what this forum is all about.  Keep it coming.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: gmcharlie on March 18, 2009, 07:52:48 pm
do you plan on removing the comb  when your done???
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 18, 2009, 08:11:28 pm
No, only the honey.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: JP on March 18, 2009, 11:44:29 pm
Don't ever stop!

Hey, are there honey stains on some of those bricks from a previous colony I'm seeing?


...JP
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 19, 2009, 01:09:22 am
The colony has two entrances. The area is stained a lot. The colony is at least 3 years old. I caught a swarm from it 2 years ago. I would like to have the genetics, but he doesn't want to tear into the ceiling of the tenant's bedroom.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: JP on March 19, 2009, 01:52:32 am
That platform he built is pretty cool. Thanks for posting, look forward to the progress reports.


...JP
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 21, 2009, 09:52:59 pm
We made the setup today. Began with setting the cone and sealing around it with silicone.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0046.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0050.jpg)

Next we set the box with 9 frames, some foundation, some drawn comb.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0056.jpg)

Then the frame with brood and eggs was placed as the second frame from the wall of the house.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0057.jpg)

We spent the next two hours watching them gather at possible alternative entrances and filling them with silicone.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0061.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0073.jpg)

When we finished, it looked like this.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0075.jpg)

We will check again tomorrow for bees exiting, any entrances we missed, and the overall condition of the set up. Then either get a call from the owner, or check it ourselves, once or twice weekly.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: dhood on March 21, 2009, 11:04:52 pm
Thats a nice setup, I've never done a trapout yet, about how long does it normally take to complete the job?
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 21, 2009, 11:31:26 pm
It's in direct relation to how long they have been there and how many stores they have. This is an old hive. I expect 5 weeks or more. Could go 7 or 8. Hopefully, tho, they had just enough to make it through winter and haven't built up yet. Then it could take as little as 3 to 4 weeks.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: JP on March 21, 2009, 11:39:49 pm
Iddee, its funny how you prefer removing bees from inside a building. I prefer removing them from the exterior.

Seems like you have a really good customer here. Will you be getting that nice platform he made?


...JP
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 22, 2009, 12:51:16 am
Yes, it goes with me when I leave. He first gave it to me, but I knocked a hundred off the job, so he didn't loose it all. It has adjustable legs and totally disassembles by pins. I will be using it often.

Too many bees flying in your face when doing it from the outside. Besides, I can do a 3 story standing on the floor.  :-P   :lol:
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: JP on March 22, 2009, 12:54:49 am
Very nice! I thought it looked to be adjustable. Good luck with the trap out.


...JP
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 22, 2009, 03:52:47 pm
I checked the trap today and everything looks good. I watched the cone for an hour and a half, from 1:00 PM until 2:30 PM. There was a steady exodus of 5 to 10 bees per minute, and some had taken up residence in the hive enough to be leaving it and going straight to the fields. Others returning were going immediately into the hive with pollen on both hind legs. So far, so good. They had NOT found any new entrances, so I don't think they will after this time.

I didn't open the hive, so I don't know if I lost the brood last night. We had a heavy frost, but hopefully there were enough bees to cover it. I will check for queen cells next weekend, and if I don't have them, I will install another frame with eggs.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 28, 2009, 01:24:07 pm
Checked the trap today. Had 8 frames of bees and 2 nice, capped queen cells. It's going just fine so far. I would like to change out the box and start another, but the weather forecast is not looking so good. My next move will be a gamble, as to when to change it out without the new brood frame and eggs chilling before there's enough bees to cover it. Hopefully we will have one sunny, 65 degree day within the next week when I can exchange the boxes with a good amount of foragers out in the field. That should be enough to cover one frame of brood until more leave the house.   I HOPE>>>
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 29, 2009, 05:27:38 pm
I posted this on the cut out thread, but decided to repeat it here.

I had a change of plans. It was sunny and warm today, giving me a chance to exchange the boxes on the trap out, since the first one was nearly full. The sprayed bees have made it 10 days and is queenright, but only 2 frames of bees. I decided to put it on the trap and remove the full box with two queen cells. The cells should be emerging Thur., so today would be day 12.

Some have asked me about putting a queen and a frame of bees on a trap. I have never tried it before, but will have an answer for them in a week. The trap bees may accept her and may kill her and raise their own. Either way, I should have the genetics from the sprayed cut out.

As always, when keeping bees, be ready to change plans at any given moment. They are always going to be different than you originally plan.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Kathyp on March 29, 2009, 06:55:16 pm
just wanted to thank you for doing this.  it has been very interesting and informative.  i do not have the patience that you seem to have, but your info is very valuable. one never knows what might come up!!
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 29, 2009, 07:13:31 pm
I not no doctor. I don't got no patients.   :-D

Kathy, when it comes to humans, I don't have much patience at all, but with animals, I can wait till eternity, it seems. There's just a world of difference there.

I hope it helps people help my bees. The bees are what are important. Thanks for the accolades. Hope I can live up to them.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: jimmy on March 29, 2009, 08:05:34 pm
Question please, I can understand the trap from a fish angle however , the bees will not go back inside the small hole of screen, because?

I have always been told there are no stupid questions, althought I sort fo feel silly asking this one. Thanks

BTW: Is that 1/8 inch hardware cloth?
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 29, 2009, 09:30:18 pm
In my opinion, They don't go back in because they are oriented onto the base, and the catch box is closer. Also, >>>>I think!<<<< They cannot see the difference in the holes in the wire and the hole in the end of it. If you used a solid funnel, I think they would find the hole and use it instead of going in the catch box. The scent could also play a part in it. The scent dissipates through the wire rather then escaping through the hole in the end.

 None of this is scientifically proven, just my thoughts.

Yes, it's 1/8 wire. 1/4 will allow the bees to pass through, and screen will collapse and block their exit.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: jimmy on March 29, 2009, 10:08:39 pm
Thanks Idee ,I understand a little better now . Didn't think about the light situation. Very ingenious thinking,don't let anyone rib you about it. Guys like you make it easy for ole farts like me  to learn new tricks.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on March 29, 2009, 10:20:15 pm
Jimmy, these guys know me. I couldn't live without a little ribbing to keep my blood flowing. Don't worry, I can give it back, too. They are all a bunch of good sports.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Cindi on April 02, 2009, 11:51:54 pm
Iddee, you have done an exemplary job of this thread, my hat off to ya!!!  Go, Iddee, go!!!  Have that wonderful and the most beautiful day, great health.  Cindi
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on April 03, 2009, 07:48:21 pm
Thanks, cindi.... Here's the next episode.

It has rained here daily since I changed boxes on the trap. Today is the first decent flying day we have had. When I arrived, there was a mass exodus coming out of the cone. A half dozen or more waiting to come out. Here is what it looked like 30 minutes later, when I was ready to leave.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0081.jpg)

Overall, the trap out has been textbook. I just hope Murphy doesn't step in and mess things up.

I am also teaching SKI to be dumb, like me. With his beesuit on the ground and him on the ladder.   :mrgreen:    :mrgreen:

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/103_0087.jpg)
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Cindi on April 07, 2009, 11:19:32 am
Iddee, keep it coming!!! Cindi
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on April 10, 2009, 01:57:33 pm
Removed the second box today. 7 frames of bees in near a cluster mode. It was still cool when we got there and they hadn't fully spread out yet. I would guess there is 9 frames of bees when the temp hits 60 and sunny. With 7 frames of drawn comb and three of foundation, they were all on the drawn.

We replaced it with a medium, with a frame containing eggs, larva, pollen and honey. Trying to get a medium nuc started with this one.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Cheryl on April 11, 2009, 02:03:50 am
I just read through this entire thread for the first time. I'm enjoying this very much!
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: RayMarler on April 11, 2009, 04:12:27 am
Iddee, you are the king of trap outs, as I've said many times. Thanks for much for keeping this thread going and all the nice pictures to help explain things to my hard head!  :-D
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on April 17, 2009, 06:34:15 pm
Thanks, all, for the kind words. Here is today's update.

Ski checked the trap today. The medium super we put on had 4 frames of bees in the middle of the day. Bees were flying and foragers were bringing in from the fields. I'm guessing there will be 6 frames of bees tonight when they are all in the box. There were still bees exiting the cone. There was one queen cell, still open and full of royal jelly.
Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since the trap was set. The two hives I have gotten from it are doing quite well. This one will be ski's. He uses all mediums. It is coming along good, and they are still coming out from the house. We will check it again next week and possibly add another medium.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: JP on April 17, 2009, 11:46:05 pm
You are my idol Iddee!


...JP
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on April 23, 2009, 11:30:19 pm
Ski checked the trap today. He found 4 capped queen cells. This will be the third hive from this trap out.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on April 29, 2009, 12:28:31 pm
We checked the trap Yesterday. The number of bees doesn't seem to be increasing. There are still bees exiting now and then, but very few. I think it is winding down. Another week and I expect to see no more bees exiting.  Then it will be time to remove the cone and allow the bees to clean out the house.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Robo on April 29, 2009, 12:34:43 pm
3 hives and about 6 weeks.  Not too shabby at all.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: wxton on May 06, 2009, 11:11:23 pm
I have what might also be a stupid question.  How do you get the boxes down off of that platform?  Do you seal them off and strap them down before the descent down the ladder or what?  Read this for the first time tonight and is a great thread.  Would this work for trapping bees out of a hollow tree? 
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on May 06, 2009, 11:21:16 pm
>>>>How do you get the boxes down off of that platform?<<<<

VERY CAREFULLY!!   Actually, you should seal them off with screen after dark. Dummy me, I just pick it up and walk down the ladder.

>>>>Would this work for trapping bees out of a hollow tree?<<<<

Sure did.....

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/bees112.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/TRAP%20OUTS/Storedpics002.jpg)

Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on May 07, 2009, 02:21:47 pm
Ski checked the trap today. Still had 4 frames of bees, same as for the last two weeks. That says the house is empty. Haven't seen a bee exit the cone for a week. He removed the cone so they can begin the clean up.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Kathyp on May 07, 2009, 03:04:46 pm
i might have miss this, but did the queen cells come from the brood you put in the box.  as i recall, you don't usually get the queen with your trap outs? 
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on May 07, 2009, 03:50:06 pm
The queen cells come from the eggs I put in the box, Yes.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: wxton on May 08, 2009, 03:21:29 pm
Thanks for the info.  I have a hive in a hollowed out hole in a pecan tree about 15' up.  they have been there about 3 years living on there own.  Must be pretty good genetics.  I am gonna try and get them.  i am gonna have to build a plat for up the tree sortof like a deerstand to hold the box but other than that...should go pretty easily.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Robo on May 08, 2009, 04:31:52 pm
You can screw the box right to the tree also.   I use a screen bottom board and a sheet of coroplast for the top to keep the weight down.

(http://www.bushkillfarms.com/gallery2/d/1020-1/100_1650.jpg)
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: JP on May 08, 2009, 08:15:13 pm
Thanks for the info.  I have a hive in a hollowed out hole in a pecan tree about 15' up.  they have been there about 3 years living on there own.  Must be pretty good genetics.  I am gonna try and get them.  i am gonna have to build a plat for up the tree sortof like a deerstand to hold the box but other than that...should go pretty easily.  Thanks again.

Wxton, the thing is, with trap outs, you are not saving the genetics of the particular hive you are trapping out unless you are able to get that colony's queen to exit and join the catch box.

This can be done on newly established colonies sometimes, but the odds of getting an established colony's queen to exit and enter your catch box are slim to none.

What Iddee has done with this trap out and others was to use the bees in the void space being trapped to create a queen from genetics belonging to one of his own hives.

Go back and read the post from the beginning and you'll see what I mean.

If you have a colony you want to make queens from, than you could use the hive in the pecan tree to do so.

Just wanted to clarify things for you.


...JP
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Robo on May 08, 2009, 09:58:17 pm
JP makes an excellent point.  I overlooked your statement about genetics.   If it is the genetics you are after,  I would leave them be and set up a few swarm traps to catch a swarm from it.  Then you will have retained the genetics.

Actually,  if the bees are not bothering anyone I would suggest leaving them be anyway.  I only recommend removing a colony if they are a nuisance or too close to people.  Let ferals be if you can.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on May 08, 2009, 10:04:30 pm
Leave them in place and post them here. 

http://www.savethehives.com/

As said above, trapouts don't yield queens. They have to make their own from eggs provided.


Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: wxton on May 11, 2009, 01:48:27 pm
I will leave them there.  I will try my luck with some swarm traps as suggested.  I also registered the feral hive.  And I understand about the genetics.  I should have been able to put two and too together but sometimes it takes someone else to point it out to you.  Thanks. 
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on May 16, 2009, 01:09:08 pm
We checked the trap Thurs. and found bad news. They were entering and leaving the house, and carrying in pollen. It signaled that we had removed the cone too soon. We went back Fri. and replaced the cone. It is too soon for the new queen in the box to be laying, and I have never been very successful at finding a virgin queen, so we went back today and added another frame of eggs and larva. "Just in case". If she is there, the new frame will just boost the colony. If she isn't, it will give them another chance to raise one.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on May 22, 2009, 04:51:51 pm
Today's check.....

6 frames of bees, up from 4.
10 or more queen cells. It seems the first ones didn't take.
No bees in the cone nor trying to enter the house. Looks to be over, but we left the cone anyway. Don't want to make the same mistake again. Am thinking we may take the box down and place a different hive there to rob out the house. Will let things stay as are for a few more days, then decide the next step.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: G3farms on May 22, 2009, 08:40:46 pm
iddee, I have a couple of questions..............

So after you trap all of the bees out, what happens to the queen?

I know the brood and eggs would die since there are no bees to cover them, right?

How did you learn about trap outs??

This is a great thread, and thank you for posting it and the pics.

G3
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on May 22, 2009, 08:55:52 pm
G3, read here...

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20131.msg153535.html#msg153535

I learned just like you are now. Asking questions on bee forums. I listened to the ones that failed as much as the ones that succeeded. I then set them up for 4 or 5 years, studying as I went along.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on June 15, 2009, 02:13:33 pm
Final post.....

Removed the stand and hive today and sealed the house with silicone caulk. Hasn't been a bee entered the house for several days now, so all honey has been removed.
Total time.... 3 Months

Final tally.....

7 frames of bees and a queen raised from my favorite hive.
Boosted a hive with queen from 1 frame of bees to 8 frames of bees.
10 frame medium hive with 7 frames of bees raised a queen from my favorite hive and she is now laying.
One well made trap stand, made from square tubing and diamond spaced steel platform, adjustable height.
$250.00

It has been a lot of fun and I hope it helps others doing trapouts
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: hoku on June 15, 2009, 03:56:57 pm
Your postings have help me so much!!  Thank you for the details and the pics and time spent.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Cindi on June 16, 2009, 01:14:24 pm
Oh Iddee, well, well, well.  Three months, that has been a long time, you must have patience as high as my lucky stars.  Takin' my hat off to you.  And look how your posts have undoubtedly helped others in the trapping out process, again, a second hat off to you.  Thank you for taking this time to explain, and explain and explain.  Be proud of what you have done, your help to others.  AND....have that most wonderful, beautiful day, lovin' our great life, and groovin'.  Health.  Cindi
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: Nathen on June 25, 2009, 10:06:36 pm
Question please, I can understand the trap from a fish angle however , the bees will not go back inside the small hole of screen, because?

I have always been told there are no stupid questions, althought I sort fo feel silly asking this one. Thanks

I've been wondering the same thing for a while as well, so we're both silly.  (Man, are you in poor company!)  I know iddee stressed in his trapout procedure that it is very important to seal all possible alternate entrances the first time around because once they find an alternate entrance, they become that much more determined to find other alternate entrances if you seal up the one they found.  In the pictures here, I see them sealing up possible entrances five or six feet away from the trap hive.  The hole at the end of the cone seems like such an obvious alternate entrance to me.  I don't see why they wouldn't find it.  Unless it's a light and scent issue as iddee suggested.  As sensitive as bees are to scents, I wouldn't be surprised if they used it to home in on the entrance to their hive.  Still, you would think some bees would find their way back in just by blind luck.  It's not like it's such a long shot.
Title: Re: Trap out in progress
Post by: iddee on June 25, 2009, 11:21:06 pm
Have you ever used a robber screen? Six inches and the robbers can't find the entrance even tho it's all the way across the hive front.

They cannot see the cone as a solid object, so the entrance looks just like more wire mesh. They cannot distinguish between the holes in the wire and the cone entrance.

I imagine the smell also plays a part in it, along with the fact that they are oriented to the base of the cone.