Carniolan or New World Carniolan

[Tucker1]

What are the basic differences between a regular Carniolan and a New World Carniolan?
(I'm assuming that it's a genetic thing and not just a change in location.)

Do they behave differently?  Why would I want one type over the other ?

Can a "new bee" like me really tell the difference ?  (I have regular Carniolans.)

Regards,
Tucker

[slaphead]

Tucker,

Old World Carnolians are a pure strain from the mountains of Central Europe, I believe they originated from the mountains of Czechoslovakia.  With all the cross breeding that has gone on in the US I suspect they are hard to find as a pure strain.  New World Carnolians are a cross between OWCs and Italians selected for specific traits of gentleness and hardiness.  Both are relatively gentle bees and will fly on cooler days than pure bred Italians.  OWCs are less prone to rob than either Italians or NWCs but I have read they are a little more likely to swarm.  OWCs are naturally resistant to tracheal mites, not sure if that trait carried over to the NWCs.  OWCs tend to be grey with no yellow in them.  NWCs, at least the ones I've seen are not grey, looking more like Italians.  Finally I believe OWCs tend to over winter as a smaller cluster than NWCs and Italians.  In theory one would predict the OWCs ability to fly on cooler days and it's improved conservation of reserves (smaller cluster size) would make it an ideal bee for the Pacific NW.  When I've compared activities at neighboring hives of OWCs and NWCs it appears the OWCs are active (flying) at slightly cooler temps.  The latter observation led me to add two hives of OWCs this year.  Guess I'll find out the value of last years observations.  Would be interested in hearing your experience of working them.

SH

[Michael Bush]

Sue Coeby has been in charge of a breeding program where they took bees with Carniolan traits and tried to breed a line of desirable Carniolan traits and called it "New World Caniolans".  The rest are not in her breeding program.

[Tucker1]

Slaphead : This is my second year with Old World Carniolan's. I have two hives and have found them OECs) to be quiet gentle and forgiving. I will often remove the top covers and perhaps pull a single frame without any protection. I don't wear gloves whenever I fully inspect the hive apart. Its seems that they build up fast in the spring (although) I don't have anything to compare them to. In our area of the country, most of the beeks have Carniolan's or Italians. From what I can tell, when we pick up our packages in the spring, the Carniolans are the most commonly perhaps.

My girls wintered well and their are certainly building up quickly. From my limited perspective, they seem to be great for a beginner like me. The only minor complaint I might have is that an unmarked queen is a little bit difficult to find at first, because of her dark color. However, I've got over that. I'm looking forward to this year to see how the 2nd year hive will do.

I sure the experienced beeks have their opinions.  I have noticed that some beeks seem to keep several types of bees in their outyards. I'm not sure why this is done. Perhaps it's intended to provide some balance to the outyard.

Hope this help. From my experience, I'd certainly recommend them to anyone that wanted to try them.

Regards,
Tucker

[slaphead]

Hi Tucker,

That does help, thanks.

Would you mind telling me who you acquired them from?  I've a couple of nucs of OWCs on the way from Cedar Glen.  Looking ahead to next year I may want to diversify the genetics of the apiary by adding a couple from a different source.

Thanks,

SH

[Tucker1]

Glad to help.  I purchase my bees from Tates Honey Farm in Spokane.  It's a nice place, with a friendly owner, who is always willing to help out newbees. It's one of those places where it's common to find older gents standing around a wood burning stove in the morning, talking about bees.

Jerry gets his bees from Can-Am Apiaries in northen California. ( www.honeyrunapiaries.com/bee_links_data-2330.phtml ) Looking at the Can-Am website, I see that they will soon be offering NWC as well. So far, I've been very pleased with Can-Am bees and all of the material that I've purchased from Tates.

I did find this additional bit of information on NWC (www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-201137.html). Mr. Bush and others provide some useful information about the NWCs.

Thanks again for replying to my questions.

Regards,
Tucker

[deerhunter]

I have a hive of the nwc from Ohio state and They are very calm bees but very slow to make honey in the supers.
My Buckfast and Italians will make 3 to 1 in honey.

Maybe its just mine but I am not real happy with them.

[doak]

I was short a queen several years back so thought I would try a Carnelian Queen.
First year was ok. The first queen offspring produced some mighty aggressive bees.
Crossed over with my Wild crowd. :)doak

[dpence]

I have two hives of NWC, they are very gentle.  What I noticed that is different from Italians is the queen will shutdown laying as needed.  They over winter well, and come on strong as soon as the flow is up.  Just my experience so far.  My queens came from Honey Run Apiaries. 

David

[Brian D. Bray]

I have OWC, Russians, and NWC, I see little difference in them overall.  All are good cold weather bees.  They all overwinter in small clusters and build up quickly in the spring with an early swarm tendency that can catch a beekeeper used to Italians short.
If find them all dosile bees.