Author Topic: Oh Crap! Overcrowded bees. Fast answers needed. (Read 11572 times)

Understudy · « **Reply #20 on:** April 10, 2006, 08:38:23 am »

Well the bees got moved this weekend. They are now in a deep box with ten frames. I scraped the swarm cells off the bottom of the frames and placed them in the new box. The move went well. The bees are flying back and forth loaded with pollen. I have put an entrance reducer in. The only oddball thing is that at night the bees block up the entrance and hang out at the entrance. I am guessing they may still have a swarm mentality and they may need time to adjust to the new home.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Finsky · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2006, 09:14:12 am »

Quote from: Understudy

The only oddball thing is that at night the bees block up the entrance and hang out at the entrance.

It seems that hive is still crowded. May be thay continue their hanging couple of days. Put under brood box another box.

If they make new queen cells, move hive 10 feets away and put nex box in old site. Then give there larva frame pollen and food, and the rest foundations. When they have drawn almost all foundations they will not sawrm. Then put together those hive halves.

Understudy · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2006, 10:07:40 am »

Do you mean the bees think they are still in an overcrowded situation?
Because the bees have five new fresh frames for them to expand on.
Maybe they got into the swarm mentality already and I should split the hive by moving one part 10 feet away and then bringing it back?
The queen cells may have already hatched I will check later today it is pouring rain right now.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Finsky · « **Reply #23 on:** April 10, 2006, 11:04:39 am »

Quote from: Understudy

The queen cells may have already hatched I will check later today it is pouring rain right now.

If you have yet capped queen cells they surely will swarm if you not interrupt them. If they are not going to swarm, they destroy queen cells and bite a hole through cell's side wall.

If they are going to swarm and if they have ready queen inside cells, queen just make a little door and stay in cell. When good day comes, they rush out with swarm. It is opportunity to get several good queens in this way and make nucs.

If you really have that situation that they are going to swarm, do that moving trick. Otherwise they keep they mind and run away with virgin queen. If you see old queen, give it to foundation hive so it continues egg laying.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #24 on:** April 10, 2006, 09:57:48 pm »

Sounds like they are in need of ventilation as well as the room issue. Prop the top open a bit. Or put some shims under the inner cover. Or popscicle sticks. Or, if you have a SBB, take out the tray.

Understudy · « **Reply #25 on:** April 10, 2006, 11:49:19 pm »

Quote from: Michael Bush

Sounds like they are in need of ventilation as well as the room issue. Prop the top open a bit. Or put some shims under the inner cover. Or popscicle sticks. Or, if you have a SBB, take out the tray.

The room issue bogles my mind. The bees now have 5 clean frames. The ventalation issue I could work with. I can take off the telescoping cover and leave the inner cover with the small hole in the top.

I could remove the entrance reducer?

The is not a SBB. I need to get one for it.

There are no queens other than the main one. That I can see, that is not saying much. I am awful at finding the normal queen. I have seen what I am guessing are some drone cells they are not big like queen cells. They look more like pimples on brood frame.

Okay, enough for now, need sleep.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Finsky · « **Reply #26 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:50:29 am »

You forecast does not tell hot weather ?
http://www.wunderground.com/US/FL/West_Palm_Beach.html

You say that there is rain and bees hang outside. So they do if hive is too full of bees of full of honey. And it takes some days before they return to work.

Now you have place to learn and clear out what is the situation in the hive. To make a gap in inner cover is not wise at all.

* It hive is too hot, they have ventilating bees tens or hundreds outside of entrance.
* if it is too hot, you see it from thermometer . 32C = brood area temperature. They must get water to cool hive.
* It they got too heavy nectar flow that is reason why they cannot work and come out to hang on walls - you see when you look inside

* if it it too hot or too heavy nectar flow, keep entrance widely open. Look ventilators....

* If hive is too hot, and when you look inside, bees like to stay near walls and there is "hole" in the centre of bee mass.

* If bees are going to swarm, they do not draw foundations.

Understudy · « **Reply #27 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:57:42 pm »

They are definitly drawing foundation. One of the new frames is already showing signs of new wax cell. It look a little weird in some areas where it is clumped. But the rest of it looks like it is starting to come along normally.

There is not a heat issue based on the bee formation. The entrance is completly sealed at night with the clump of bees.

During the days the entrance is pretty crowded but it is bees flying back and forth just at night they cluster up. am going to pull the entrance reducer.

There is plenty of water for them to cool the hive. Also the night tempratures have been in the low 70F/21C.

They are not hanging out on the walls of the box, they are hanging out on the frames. Which are loaded with capped cells. I expect the population to double again within a week the way things are going.

I am assuming that the hive is to full of bees and brood, there is some honey but not as much, and they haven't had a chance to build new foundation fast enough to keep up. That may be why they are hanging out.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Finsky · « **Reply #28 on:** April 11, 2006, 05:12:00 pm »

You could do a trick and give to them give a new box under the brood box. They may use that new room as they like. When new bees emerge you need not to be so exact when you give new room.

If bees are crowded and that is why they are lazy, it takes some days that they learn to work again. If they prepared to swarm that is another reason why so just hang and wait for better life.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #29 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:39:40 pm »

>The room issue bogles my mind. The bees now have 5 clean frames.

Five empty frames in a hive is not much room.

>The ventalation issue I could work with. I can take off the telescoping cover and leave the inner cover with the small hole in the top.

You don't want an open hole on top. Just put a stick between the inner and outer to make some air space and allow some air out the top.

I've seen many hives with enough room with a beard of bees on the front. Opening up the SBB and propping the cover has never failed to clear up the beard in these situations.

>I could remove the entrance reducer?

If you have a solid bottom board, a reduced entrance, no top vent, warm weather and a booming hive, of course they are bearded. Yes, remove the entrance reducer. Provide some way for the air to get in the bottom and out the top.

>The is not a SBB. I need to get one for it.

You can get by without the SBB, but the air needs someway to get in the bottom (and out the top) and it can't get in the bottom with a solid bottom AND an entrance reducer.

Understudy · « **Reply #30 on:** April 12, 2006, 01:13:29 am »

Okay, I may have learned something here. Probably wrong but it is something.

I pulled the entrance reducer at dusk as the bees were finished with their collecting flights. A digital thermometer which wasn't easier to use did not indicated any overheating issues. The highest temp I could find was 85F/29C but I am not willing to say how accurate that is because getting the temp was a pain in the butt.

My guess is this. The bees do not have enough drawn frames to hang out on. Here is what I mean. This is now a 10 frame deep. 5 frames were moved from the nuc. 4 of which were brood and one of which was honey. The 5 frames in the deep are just foundation frames with no drawn comb on them yet.

So the bees at night are hanging at the bottom of the five drawn frames where it is warm. The bees don't want to hang out on cold plastic foundation frames. Now don't get wrong there are bees working on the frames starting to draw out comb, but until that happens, the bees want to hang with the group. The entrance reducer has been pulled and that has seemed to have a little effect if that the entrance is not completly blocked with bees. They are definitly hanging with the crowd.

I suspect (guess) once the comb is drawn on one or two of the new frames and there is room for the bees the entrance won't be so crowded.

I am just hoping the population explosion doesn't force something else. Those brood frames are loaded with eggs and larvae.

Sincerely,
Brendhan