a conclusion to an observation

[GSF]

Like I said in an earlier post I've done a lot of reading but I'm lacking in BeeTV (experience). So when you read this remember this is my first summer with bees and I'm trying to put pieces of the puzzle together;

Okay, For a while now my hive has been bearding pretty thick. 3 to 5 inches tall above and the landing board full with some on the sides. Pretty good bunch of bees. A couple of days ago they were 2 to 3 deep on the landing/entrance. Almost too thick for passage. I did notice some of them pretty much dive bombing at an opening.  Yesterday morning there weren't so many but I did notice they were really hauling the pollen in. One right after another, bumper to bumper.

This morning about 7:30 I went to check on them before I went to church. I bet there weren't 5 bees on the landing and entrance of the hive. I counted them. I stood there a little and every now and then one would come in with a load of pollen. Not many at all. My first thought is "swarm". This will be two weeks since I went in the hive. I did see about six half made queen cups with nothing in them. Plenty of bees, brood, stores, and room. A couple of empty frames in one of the deeps and an empty super on top.

So I kind of thought that they had all left to gather in some pollen. (I shined an LED penlight  :shock: in there tonight and I did see quite a few inside.) Through out the day I checked on them. Still no great amount of bees hanging around but a mild flow of bees in and out. The ones coming in were loaded to the gills with pollen. The number of bees still didn't compare to the other day.

Correct me if I'm wrong, here's my summary: As of late this evening the hive was still pretty docile and quite. Isn't a day without a queen long enough for them to become agitated? I figure there must be some distance between the hive and the source. The golden rod should be blooming by the end of the week around the house. I went yesterday and checked but the kudzu's bloom is long gone enough to have beans in it's place.  One of the reason's they hung around is because of a dearth and temperature? Now they have a purpose in life and they're pretty much too busy inside and outside to hang around. Still, it bothers me to be able to look inside and see the screen not covered with bees. Probably because I've become accustom to it lately. What's your take? thanks.

[Kathyp]

you probably need to get in there and check it out.  a hive that has swarmed is not technically queenless because they will have started a new one before the old left.

your summary may not be wrong, but you can't verify until you look.

[iddee]

I agree with Kathy except the "probably". You "definitely" need to get in there and check each frame thoroughly.

[BeeMaster2]

GSF,
I have had a few swarms in my OB hive. There is a big difference when there is no queen and when they have queen cells present. With a queen cell, they are quiet even the night of the swarm. Whit out a queen cell I can hear the hive the minute I walk in the patio. They get noisy. Once they get a queen cell started, they settle down. They also run all over the frame. Usually they are running up the frames to the top of the hive.
Jim

[Kathyp]

I agree with Kathy except the "probably".

hey, it's the new, more mellow, me.  all i need is some fancy foliage growing on the bedroom windowsill and the transformation will be complete!

GSF, get the heck in there a check!!   :evil:

[iddee]

 :lau: :lau: :lau:

[TenshiB]

I think you should check them, too. If they swarmed this late, you may want to consider purchasing a mated/laying queen. I hope that they didn't swarm and just got off to work as a result of a flow. One thing is that they aren't usually very active by 7 in the morning.

Is your current queen marked?

[GSF]

TenshiB - She's marked.

Thanks all, I was thinking about going through it but with the flow going on I hated to interrupt their work. I'll probably suit up this evening after work and check it out.

[GSF]

So if they have swarmed, wouldn't the next logical conclusion be to reduce the entrance?

Will a swarm come back and rob the host hive?

[iddee]

NO. and NO.

[10framer]

the weather is cooling down so they won't be bearding as much.  the bees may have been backfilling some of the brood chamber over the last few weeks so less young bees are hatching to replace the older bees that are dying.  i'd just pop the top and see what kind of coverage you have.  if that doesn't look right then you might want to go in a bit deeper.  until the small hive beetle showed up i've never seen a swarm after june and there will almost always be a few queen cups in a hive.  i wouldn't get too worried just yet.

[TenshiB]

10framer:  Is it wise to remove queen cups? They do seem to take up some unnecessary space on a frame. Some of my bees will put them right in the middle of some beautifully drawn comb and it just makes an unsightly dent/crater.. ALSO, would leaving some queen cups be useful to the bees in case they (God forbid) have to do an emergency supersedure?

[Kathyp]

Is it wise to remove queen cups? They do seem to take up some unnecessary space on a frame. Some of my bees will put them right in the middle of some beautifully drawn comb and it just makes an unsightly dent/crater.. ALSO, would leaving some queen cups be useful to the bees in case they (God forbid) have to do an emergency supersedure?

whenever you face a question like this you should also ask "why did they do it?".  if you can't answer the question with something other than "i don't know" (let me know if you can), leave them alone.  they know something you don't.

[GSF]

TenshiB, Tenframer can correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I've read they are sort of an insurance.

Okay, the hive inspection was done this afternoon to see if they have swarmed. I didn't see a queen, but I didn't have to. I have a medium super on top and two deeps on bottom. My plan is for at least the deeps to be my brood boxes and I would like the medium as well. The way it is going I will probably end up taking the medium off. They aren't the least bit interested in filling it as of yet. The golden rods are just about ready to pop open and there's acres and acres starting about 30 ft from the hive.

I pulled the top off and since it isn't drawn out I looked through it fairly quickly (plastic foundation). When I looked at the second one I was pretty sure at that time they had not swarmed. I went through it but didn't see the queen. Probably 3/4s of one and half of another frame isn't drawn out. The rest was wall to wall bees, brood, pollen, and honey. When I took the second one off and started to look at the bottom one, I knew what the answer was so I didn't bother. It too was wall to wall bee heads looking at me in between every frame. Hopefully that gives me the winter to read up on swarm traps, and splits.

Do you think with the abundance of GRs & others flowers around here they will fill the 8 frame medium out?

I tell you, I feel pretty good knowing that I still have my bees. It's been a long short summer for me and them. One of my biggest mistakes so far was not getting two or three packages instead of just one. One of the best things I've done was get an IPK small hive beetle trap from greenbeehives. I can't help it if I sound like a commercial for them. Once again today there wasn't the first beetle on the top board or inner cover. Last inspection there was zero The one prior I believe just two. The one before that 3 to 5. And before the trap 30 to 50 on the inner cover and 3 or 4 in the hive. I also believe moving more in the sun helped as well. This is peak insect season here too. Did I tell you I didn't have any beetles..,

So pretty much what concerned me was prior to the non-bearding there was a ton of bees out. Then when I went out there and only counted five on the landing board it scared me. Then when I never saw the numbers build back up it had me wondering. So I may have been right about it being a long way off from the source to the hive.

Thanks again all for you thoughts.

[BlalockTwin1]

You may well be out of the woods.  I've found that a lot of my queens don't like to include the bottom deep in their broodnest area.  The forager bees will fill a bottom deep slap up (just hanging around...dancin' and what not) with their bodies.  Sometimes if a queen isn't using the bottom, and she's getting close to my supers (I don't use excluders), I go ahead and reverse deeps.

I did have a hive this year that bearded like crazy, then things seemed to go back to "normal" (no beard), only to find that they had definitely swarmed.  Bees can be tricky!  These bees left me with an inferior supersedure queen...but it's a bit late to try and replace her (plus I'm tired of buying expensive mated queens), so I'll feed them as much protein patties as they will take with some ProHealth 1:1. 

I can't believe your goldenrod hasn't opened yet!  Here in the lower piedmont of Georgia, ours has been blooming for at least two weeks.

[10framer]

gary it sounds like that hive has done pretty good considering the year and if i remember right you got off to a late start. 
i don't bother cutting down queen cps because they just rebuild them.   bees know more about being bees than i do.
my goldenrod has been blooming for a pretty good while and i'm in the middle of acres of it.  just seems to be what i call a maintenance flow.  they use it about as fast as they bring it in. 
 

[GSF]

BlalockTwin1; I can't believe it hasn't started either. I read all over these threads about how it seems everyone's gr is blooming everywhere. I can see the green buds are turning more yellow everyday so I'll guess by this weekend it'll be on.

10framer; You're right. We got off to a late start with a 3 lb package on Jun 7th. I was concerned if they swarmed how they were going to be able to defend their comb. If I remember correctly you can just about draw a straight line west and you'll be in my neck of the woods. You're probably at a higher elevation than I am.

Kathyp; You're right, when you don't know what to do, sometimes it's best to do nothing.

[Michael Bush]

>Isn't a day without a queen long enough for them to become agitated?

A swarm is a natural sequence of events.  No reason for them to become agitated when they have a bunch of just capped queen cells...

[10framer]

gary,
i'm just below the fall line but i sit on the highest ground in the area (60 feet higher above sea leavel on one end of my property than the other) i'm the last foothill.  ragweed is in a mile down the road from me but mine is just getting ready to open up.  last year my goldenrod bloomed into october this year it looks like it's going to wind up a little earlier.
rob