Will this work? (foundation question)

[Brian Sisson]

I've always used the EZ Frames, but wanted to try some traditional frames.

I got the wired foundation, but it came with no instructions and when I put one together it seemed to need more wires.
I had some 24 gauge telephone wire and ran 1 piece across the sheet horizontally.  It has two strands on each side, staggered.  I stripped the wire on one of the frames, but as I have no embedder I figured it didn't matter to the bees if it was stripped or not.

Will this work-

[Dale]

It will work, but I don't think you needed to add the extra wires.  It is crimped wire foundation to start with.  The bees may draw the comb out funny around the wires, but I think I would lose the extra wires.  Just my opinion.....

[Brian D. Bray]

My experience has been that were there is exposed wire the bees will not build comb.  In your photo I see to places that will have strips of undrawn (or underdrawn) comb the length of the frame.  I would 86 the extra wires as you don't really need it with the embedded wire and there is the question if they will work that area.

Embedded foundation needs no extra support, its 1 down fall, in my opinion, is that it has the tendency to break along the embedded wires, especially if being handled in cooler weather.  Its too easy to end up with frames that have space gaps between the foundation and the frame due to broken foundation.  I don't use it.

I use just an inch or 2 of foundation at the top of each frame as a starter strip.  The bees seem to actually prefer building comb from thin air over working with foundation.  The will build the frame out wood to wood with few if any gaps.  Once the wax ages a little it is as sturdy as if had wires.

And it is so much cheaper.

[Ross]

Or don't use any foundation at all.  I have used foundationless frames for 3 years now.  I just rip the top bars at a 45 degree angle to create a center guide and the bees do the rest.

[Utah]

Or don't use any foundation at all.  I have used foundationless frames for 3 years now.  I just rip the top bars at a 45 degree angle to create a center guide and the bees do the rest.

Can you show a picture of what you mean by 45 degree angle before placing in the hive and after the bees have dranw it out?  I'd like to get away from buying the foundation.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

[mick]

Wooo thats a lot of wires, looks like you could lay concrete on that frame and it wouldnt warp!

[Finsky]

.

You need only normal foundation and then 2 wires in the frame. Then you give electrict circuit into wire from car accu loader. It heats the wire and wire melts inside foundation.

It is better make in lower edge of foundation a 10 mm gap. Otherwise wax enlarge in the hive and you get a wave in lower part of comb.

[Mici]

Wooo thats a lot of wires, looks like you could lay concrete on that frame and it wouldnt warp!

hehe, yeah!

Oh, michael, what about regular frame size, is it safe fundationless? won't it break of during inspections or something?

[Michael Bush]

>Oh, michael, what about regular frame size, is it safe fundationless?

Safe?

> won't it break of during inspections or something?

If you turn it sideways when it's new wax, yes.  But you shouldn't do that.

I use foundationless for everything with no wires.  I use it for brood, cut comb, crush and strain and extracting.  But I'm using medium frames (6 1/4").  Charles Martin Simon uses foundationless deeps and he says he extracts them all the time.