Plastic plate instead of queen excluder

[eivindm]

I know many of you don't like queen excluders (often called honey excluders).  I just read in the latest edition of the Norwegian beekeeping magazine about a method a beekeeper in Norway tried one year.  The basis of his theory was that the queen lays eggs in a pyramidical or conical shape upwards.  By blocking the continuous way in this pyramidical shape he hoped to stop the queen from laying eggs in the supers.  So what he did was to put a piece of stiff clear plastic 20x20 cm / 8x8 inches on top of the second deep (brood chamber).  The bees could still go unhindered up to the supers.  He found that in 9 of 10 hives, the queen did not lay eggs in the supers.  

Haven't heard about anyone else backing his theories, but I thought it was interesting.  Anyone thought of / heard about this before?

Edited a few minutes later:  Discovered I had written the wrong measurements which I have now fixed.

[manowar422]

Eivend,

Did the article mention if the 8 X 8 sheet was laid directly on the top
bars, or supported with bee space above the frame?

Thanks, David

[bassman1977]

9 out of 10 hives seems pretty good.  It isn't even 100% that a queen excluder will keep the queen out.  If you happen to find more info on this, I'd be interested in hearing it.

[eivindm]

Did the article mention if the 8 X 8 sheet was laid directly on the top
bars, or supported with bee space above the frame?

I'm not entirely sure, but my impression was that it was laid directly on top.  But it would probably work just as well with the space between as it still blocks the "pyramid" for the queen.

[Michael Bush]

You can just turn a (non bound) queen excluder 90 degrees so the bees have free access on the ends and it will make a lot of difference and almost always keep the queen below it.  I call that a "queen discourager".

You can put a queen excluder in several positions.

1)  Queen excluder.  This is above the brood nest in line with the box.  Theoretically the queen can't pass.  In relality she always seems to if she really wants to.

2)  Queen Includer.  This is BELOW the brood nest on top of the bottom board so the queen can't leave.  This is only temporary as the drones will get trapped as well and will die until they block the "includer".  This also requires a tight lid and no other entrances.

3)  Queen Discourager.  This is in the same place as the excluder but turned 90 degress so that about 2" sticks out on each side and there is a about a 2" gap at each end.

[Joseph Clemens]

My guess is that this conical/pyramidal shaped brood nest -- basis for this theory, may not exist for me and others in tropical/sub-tropical climates. My bees seem to expand their brood nest from top bar to bottom bar and end bar to end bar as well as from outside frame to outside frame.

[eivindm]

My guess is that this conical/pyramidal shaped brood nest -- basis for this theory, may not exist for me and others in tropical/sub-tropical climates. My bees seem to expand their brood nest from top bar to bottom bar and end bar to end bar as well as from outside frame to outside frame.

Interresting! Is this the case when the queen lays eggs in several boxes as well?  Will she first fill out the entire frames in the bottom box before she moves up?  And when she moves up, where does she start?  If she starts in the lower/center part, wouldn't she still be discouraged by such a plastic plate at the place she would like to move up?

[Michael Bush]

>Is this the case when the queen lays eggs in several boxes as well?  Will she first fill out the entire frames in the bottom box before she moves up?

No.  Sometimes she does.  Sometimes she does three frames in each box for four boxes up, like a chimney.

>And when she moves up, where does she start?

Usually in the center, but sometimes the whole thing is on the south side instead.

> If she starts in the lower/center part, wouldn't she still be discouraged by such a plastic plate at the place she would like to move up?

Probably anytime there is an obstruction to her moving up and keeping the brood adjacent to the brood nest, yes she would be discouraged by it.

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/excludertypes.html

Look near the bottom for "plain plywood"

[eivindm]

Thanks for your good (as always) answer Michael!  I just noticed you've passed 1000 postings here, and I really must say that you indeed has contributed a lot with your knowledge here in the forum!  I sure have learned a lot from you!!