Maintaining same types of bees

[Pond Creek Farm]

I have been considering trying different types of bees to observe how they act and perform.  Given the number of supercedures and swarm issues, just how does one see to it that Italians, Russian, MN Hygenics, Bcukfast, etc. remain such?

[SgtMaj]

Use "pedigreed" and marked queens, and requeen if the queen has been superceded.  Otherwise even though the new queen will be the same as the old queen, you'll know that the drones she mated with, were also the same species.

[Michael Bush]

No matter what anyone believes all the bees in the US are mutts.  They are generally classified based on color and sometimes by some other physical characteristics, but no one is doing genetic testing to be sure that an Italian is actually an Italian.

[rast]

 What Michael said was told to me by a queen raiser also.

[Wes Sapp]

Well, that will just shoot down sgtmaj' fantasy bee plan. Or will it?

[SgtMaj]

Why would it?  It's just like picking out a dog at the shelter, the golden retriever you pick out is going to be a mutt, but you know the strongest influence is golden retriever...

[Pond Creek Farm]

Since all bees are mutts, does it even make any sense to purchase what are represented to be different types?  If there are no distinct differences, perhaps it makes no sense to experiement with the purportedly different races of bees.

[SgtMaj]

Yet there are clear differences, both in appearance and behavior, between mutts with heavy bulldog influence, and mutts with heavy labrador influence.  Likewise with bees.  Clearly carnolian mutts have different characteristics (including fast early buildup causing a propensity to swarm) than italian mutts (including prolonged and steady brood laying periods and a higher propensity to rob other hives)...

[Michael Bush]

>Yet there are clear differences, both in appearance and behavior, between mutts with heavy bulldog influence, and mutts with heavy labrador influence.

Exactly.  The yellow bees still overwinter in larger clusters and are brood rearing fools and the darker bees are smaller clusters and more frugal with explosive build up when they decide to.  The darker bees fly in colder weather, drift less, etc.

You can still predict a lot of characteristics.

[golddust-twins]

>The yellow bees still overwinter in larger clusters and are brood rearing fools and the darker bees are smaller clusters and more frugal with explosive build up when they decide to.

Boy am I finding this out.  I have 2 hives of each.
Yellows are very different from the darkies.

                                          Corinne

[SgtMaj]

Exactly, and it's the brood rearing foolishness of those yellow mutts I'm counting on to try to force them to draw as many frames out as possible the first couple of years.  Then I can use the extra empty drawn frames to successfully manage the dark mutts and keep them from swarming, just like Imirie describes in the pink pages. 

[rdy-b]

Exactly, and it's the brood rearing foolishness of those yellow mutts I'm counting on to try to force them to draw as many frames out as possible the first couple of years.  Then I can use the extra empty drawn frames to successfully manage the dark mutts and keep them from swarming, just like Imirie describes in the pink pages.   ]     
[/quote                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              IF they are rearing brood where do the EXTRA frames come from-ARnt they being used to rear the brood-sounds like you are going for production -tell me some more of this plan i am always interested in ways to get a head of the game ;) RDY-B

[SgtMaj]

As I understood the Imirie method of using Italians to get extra drawn comb, you put a medium of foundation on top of the box your queen is laying in, they will then draw out that comb and the queen will move up into it and start laying there.  Then you place another med. of foundation on top of that and once the brood is finished emerging from the frames on the bottom medium, you can remove, freeze and store them.

I have read other's simply replacing drawn frames in the brood box with foundation and moving those brood frames above a queen exluder to let them finish rearing the brood on that frame without laying more. 

I don't know which method is better, but I'm going to try the first method (namely because I don't intend to use a queen excluder for the first year, as any honey produced I'll be leaving for them.

[rdy-b]

Italians for brood yes -But carnies will build better and faster comb -thats why they are good for comb honey-maybe do one of each -carnies draw wax like crazy if there is a flow -RDY-B

[SgtMaj]

With the fast carni buildup in early spring for the flow, I could see how they would definately out-pace the italians by a long shot that time of year... I guess it's the classic case of the tortise and the hare... quick spurts or slow but steady...

[Robo]

I have read other's simply replacing drawn frames in the brood box with foundation and moving those brood frames above a queen exluder to let them finish rearing the brood on that frame without laying more. 

Anytime you move brood above a queen excluder,  there is a good chance they will make an emergency queen cell and raise a queen up there if there is eggs or young larvae.   I'm not sure it is a drawback, just something to be aware of,  especially if you have good queen down below.

[rdy-b]

With the fast carni buildup in early spring for the flow, I could see how they would definately out-pace the italians by a long shot that time of year... I guess it's the classic case of the tortise and the hare... quick spurts or slow but steady...

                                        Takes a nectar flow to do it right and the quick spurts of a nectar flow -lots of time provide the most nectar-the slow and steady are hard to make a surplus on and that is the whole key a surplus-weather to build on or to harvest -  8-)  RDY-B

[Brian D. Bray]

I have read other's simply replacing drawn frames in the brood box with foundation and moving those brood frames above a queen exluder to let them finish rearing the brood on that frame without laying more. 

Anytime you move brood above a queen excluder,  there is a good chance they will make an emergency queen cell and raise a queen up there if there is eggs or young larvae.   I'm not sure it is a drawback, just something to be aware of,  especially if you have good queen down below.

You don't have to use brood combs from the brood box, just move up the storage frames from each side of the brood nest, move the drone comb out to the sides and add 2 new frames.  Or you can move 2 frames out and put the new frames in the #3 spot from each side.