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Author Topic: 6 billion light year old radio signal heard - designed for Earth's listening  (Read 20172 times)

Offline beemaster

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I'm looking for an article of this to post, but I caught part of this on George Noory's Coasttocoastam.com show.

An annex receiver of SETI briefly picked up a radio signal, so shocking in possibility that it may be the most incredible story I have ever heard - and definitely the most amazing science story to ever if true.

At the end of July, supposedly a broad band radio signal was captured briefly from a place estimate to be transmitted from 6 billion light years away from a relatively unmapped area that is normally blocked by countless other galaxies between there and here. I'll get to why this is important, not just because a signal was detected, but what the implications are BEYOND the fact that 6 billion years ago life may have transmitted a signal out into space - no, this goes way beyond this.

The galactic alignment issue is big for starters, because of the shear stuff between here and there, the radio guest said it will be decades before a line of sight (okay, space curves - but include that if you wish) decades before we can figuratively point at it again. But in just that briefest of signal, the following was gathered.

The short signal reception, only a few seconds long, was composed of bursts only about a nano second in length, but spaced EXACTLY (atomically speaking) ONE SECOND APART

If you missed the last line above, reread it, and start to ponder what that means. Time (Earth time) is relative to how far from the sun we are, the length of a PLANETARY year, man's own division of time into days, hours, minutes and seconds: all this is an EARTH thing, and nowhere else in the Universe is there likely a planet with the same exact distance from its sun, rotation speeds, etc. so...

ANY SIGNAL spaced in PERFECT EARTH SECONDS would be signals made/sent to Earth, but then throw in that we are talking about 6 billion light years away in our 13 to 16 billion year old Universe, so then comes the "way too" amazing part:

You have a civilization that aimed a specific signal toward a place in a distant galaxy where a planet had not even formed yet, transmitted that signal in a a way that is specifically unique to our planet's measure of time and when we will be technologically advanced enough to receive it and understand the significance of the duration of the signal.

If this were Sci-Fi people would laugh at it, but SETI is analyzing this blip of data and we surely should hear more, lots more. Of course, how many times have findings been covered up as hash noises, reflections from space junk, etc.?

I agree it seems impossible by all standards, standards of our logic, knowledge of time, space, radiowaves, time warping. Could the signal received have literally been sent exactly at the time we received it, tossing out how we understand time, speed of light, etc? Literally, did we get a message faster than a text message from somewhere at that incredible distance? Could beings be advanced enough to warp time, see where we are, what we have to receive their message and instantly (defying our understanding that light is the fastest thing there is) and bypassing it all by wormhole, or whatever - all of which, although incredible, seems more likely than the first part of this bizarre story.

Either way, we may have heard from someone else, time will tell if the details are either released, discredited or redacted. Just remember engineers thought that a train traveling more than 80 mph was possible, but humans would not be able to withstand breathing at such speeds - we thought the world was flat, never ending or you fell of the end (I think the prior not the latter) but ships made of steel, never happen - they're to heavy. Radio signals from billions of light years away delivered instantly, no way, nothing travels faster than the speed of light.

We have been proven wrong countless times, that is how we evolve and further our understanding of the big picture. I sure hope to find more on this, and even though (at best) this may be a message in a bottle, we have been on that beach, searching for that bottle a long time - cool if it finally washes ashore.

 
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Offline Michael Bush

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>ANY SIGNAL spaced in PERFECT EARTH SECONDS would be signals made/sent to Earth

Only if they knew of the arbitrary divisions we came up with.  A year is measurement based on astronomical regularity.  The time it takes for our planet to circle the sun.  A day is based on astronomical regularity, the time it takes for our planet to complete one rotation.  A month is the amount of time between full moons (but we cheated it down from 13 actual full moons to an arbitrary 12 months which does not match full moons at all).  Then we arbitrarily decided to divide a day into 24 hours with no astronomical connection at all, and arbitrarily decided to divide those into 60 minutes.  It just as easily could have been 10 "hours" in a day and 100 "minutes" to a hour and 100 "seconds" to a minute by simply dividing a day into 10 and each of those into 100 and each of those into 100.  This system was actually used in China at one time in the past and in France after the French revolution.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time 24 hours in a day, 60 minutes in a hour and 60 seconds in a minute are all arbitrary.  If we had not adopted the Roman calendar and timekeeping system we might have something entirely different.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Time_measurement_systems  The Roman system came from the original idea that there were 360 days in a year (which was mistaken as there are 365 days 8 hours and 10 minutes in a year) and so a circle was broken up into "days" which we called degrees.  Hence 360 degrees in a full circle.  Then, since we were on the track of something that divided evenly into 60s we went with 60 minutes and 60 seconds in a degree  They carried this over into minutes and seconds in a day even though they divided the day (degree) into 24 first and did not do the same with a circle...

Anyway, the point is that a second is a totally arbitrary unit of measurement.  Now if "the"y know something about us as a people, and not just our planets cycles, "they" might know something about how long a second is...

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Offline Kathyp

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maybe "they" just sent out an evenly space signal and it happened to match our seconds?  or, it came from the future...or the past! 

seems to me that the evenly spaced part is more important than the time measurement? 
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline Michael Bush

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>seems to me that the evenly spaced part is more important than the time measurement? 

I did not intend to downplay the "evenly spaced" part.  That is certainly significant.
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Offline KD4MOJ

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Got to think.... how was it to remain evenly spaced traveling all those light years away?

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Offline BeeMaster2

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Does not matter how far they travel, if they are transmitted at even intervals they will be received at even intervals. They maybe compressed (shortened) or stretched (expanded) due to the relative speed between us and them, depending on whether we are moving towards them or away from them but the spacing will remain the same especially considering the short length of time they were received.
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Offline Michael Bush

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>how was it to remain evenly spaced traveling all those light years away?

They would all be traveling the same speed, 186,272 miles per second.  It's not just a good idea.  It's the law.
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Offline beemaster

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Laws are mean to be broken, especially if it is our law and not theirs. My whole point, isn't the distance and knowing what a SECOND is here (well not alone) but those two things are remarkable - as Michael says, they'd need to know something about us, so...

I go by the theory that something that far away is how long at light speed it would take to get there to here, here to there: but what if the signal was sent like an email or text, instantly, through means of warping time a civilization that far away, but alive and well and WATCHING US planned out the alignment issues and sent a signal instantly. We can say lightspeed is a law all we want, but man couldn't fly either, and forget about getting to the moon (both explainable through laws as we understand them and technology at least advanced to make the trips and back) but we can't instantly go from the US to Australia, but with phones, computers, etc we are there in all but body.

Michael, I wonder, do you doubt there will ever be time travel or teleportation discovered in our human history, no matter how far in the future it may be? Is it just stuff of science fiction, or could man advance enough to master such feats?

I like to think we can things today that appears as magic just decades ago - we too should have magic to look forward to. If not us, at least generations to come.

So to think a civilization at least capable of instantly gobsmacking us with a signal in real time from such a great distance (to me) is nothing more than USING the laws, not breaking them. Because I doubt we have all the laws yet, science would just pack up and go home if we did.

We have test cars now with hundreds of thousands of accident free autonomous driving, car manufacturers trying to inject these techniques into automotive standards, common place will be the driverless car, no finally in the foreseeable future. And were not talking Google's test cars either, factory production higher end cars are ready to get these in their show rooms. Sure it is all explained, and in this car case, light speed and GPS technology is crucial, but I just don't know that we can say the same rules apply, nor that they can't be broken or tweaked beyond our understanding. I think we are too new at all this stuff to believe we have it all right.


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Offline Better.to.Bee.than.not

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I wouldn't read to much into it. many things send out frequency waves naturally, pulsars/etc. what we could be dealing with quite easily is 10 monkeys in a room with a typewriter eventually writing the worlds greatest novel. There are only a certain number of factors within a set amongst unlimited and continuous factors....eventually those factors will be anything and everything within that set, if continuously changing.

Offline Michael Bush

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>Michael, I wonder, do you doubt there will ever be time travel or teleportation discovered in our human history, no matter how far in the future it may be?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."--Clarke's law #3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."--Clarke's law #1

>Is it just stuff of science fiction, or could man advance enough to master such feats?

Based on what we currently know it appears impossible.  But so did a lot of things that we've already done at some point in the past.

It seems more probable that we could jump forward in time than backwards... after all that is the direction that time travels...

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Offline wayne

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The future does not exist yet. It will be formed by every decission we make and the reality we experience will be forged by the multitude of those who interact with us. By making this post, and by you reading it, I have changed the timeline of your future in some way.
The past has existed and the events that made it what it is have happened. It MAY be possible to go back and wittness events, but if there is any interaction, even to your being seen, the timeline from that point forward will be changed and it may be impossible to return to your present.
   
I was born about 100 years too early, or to late.

Offline Richard M

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Laws are mean to be broken, especially if it is our law and not theirs. My whole point, isn't the distance and knowing what a SECOND is here (well not alone) but those two things are remarkable - as Michael says, they'd need to know something about us, so...



This is all predicated on the idea that something that someone wrote on the internet is fact.

Offline Richard M

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>
It seems more probable that we could jump forward in time than backwards... after all that is the direction that time travels...


Travel at or close to the speed of light and you travel forward in time due to the effects of Special Relativity.

Travel at high relativistic speed for 5 years "your time" and wen you return, your twin sibling who stayed behind may be several decades older. Ipso facto etc, you've travelled forward in time.

Circumnavigate the earth in a fast jet and when you return, you aged by 1/100th of a beesdick of a microsecond.

Fly around the Earth at orbital speed and the difference is more pronounced, to the extent that they had to programme a fix into the GPS satellites to account for this effect so that they continued to provide accurate location data. Practical evidence that Einstein was right, if ever we needed it.

Offline 10framer

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maybe the universe is actually disc shaped and the message originated from earth or the signal hit a worm hole that brought it right back to us.

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Time stops for objects traveling at the speed of light.  Albert Einstein, theory of relativity.

Modern day science has utilized cesium clocks accuracy to billions of second, the most accurate clock made.  Scientists Placed one clock on the ground, the other in our fastest jet.  Upon return the clock on the jet was slower. The clocks were reversed and same results.  The faster an object travels, the slower the time.

Offline Acebird

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The clocks were reversed and same results.
In my mind all this proves is the device that measured the time was effected not the actual time.
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Yes, Ace, that is exactly the point.  The object traveling fast had time slowed do to speed.  EXACTLY

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Wayne{The future does not exist yet. It will be formed by every decission we make and the reality we experience will be forged by the multitude of those who interact with us. By making this post, and by you reading it, I have changed the timeline of your future in some way.}

Wayne you have practally, very close, to quoting the CHAOS THEORY of physics.  That is{if a butterfly flaps its wings}.  More specificity take two exact copies of planet Earth, on one planet a butterfly flaps it wings whereas on the other planet the butterfly is motionless.  Then a year later look at the two planets and one will see different weather patterns.  Ya see when the butterfly flapped it wings that caused air molecules to collide which in turn collide with other molecules which in turn collide with other molecules yada yada yada.

Butterfly theory as part of the chaos theory.  I did not enjoy studying physics, so much based on WHAT IF.  Now chemistry I luv, based on facts it is.

With chemistry, a fella sees a black hole in space and just shakes his head, I dunno sort of thing.  With physics a fella sees a black hole in space:  purposes an entire college course for study, produces lectures, writes books, argues for 20 years I.e. Stephen Hawking ?Information is maintained at the entrance of a black hole?.  Whereas colleges argued all information is lost forever when an object enters a black hole.  Seriously, they argued for 20 years; is information lost or maintained on an object that enters a black hole.  Chemistry I loved, no arguing either prove it or shut up.

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Beemaster {Michael, I wonder, do you doubt there will ever be time travel or teleportation discovered in our human history, no matter how far in the future it may be? Is it just stuff of science fiction, or could man advance enough to master such feats?

I like to think we can things today that appears as magic just decades ago - we too should have magic to look forward to. If not us, at least generations to come.}

Consider the following: Recently science has discovered dark matter or dark energy with makes up 90% of the cosmos.  The comos is everything, galaxies, universe, all planets and systems.  This dark energy appears to be without matter.  Impossible as we understand to have energy without matter.  We cannot measure, scan or by any means prove dark matter exists.

Dark matter was discovered by the orbit of a planet around a star.  The problem was the planet was traveling to fast orbiting the star so fast that the planet should have been thrown into space.  Understand this Earth is traveling the perfect speed for the size of our planet to perfectly orbit the sun.  If Earth weighed more we would be thrown into space out of orbit.

So dark matter was proposed as a reason the planet could orbit the star.  Now energy without matter has no limits.  Energy is conserved, that is we cannot bottle pure energy in summer and use this heat in winter to heat our homes.  Not the same as heating a huge rock then utilizing this heat in winter.  I am talking placing energy in a bottle, pure energy.....cannot be done.

However with dark matter everything changes and there are lots of questions: does dark energy void basic laws such as gravity.  If so space travel would be a piece of cake.  Can it be contained, saved, stored.  There is not much known about this newly discovered dark energy force, but a lot to ponder.

I wonder if this is Heaven??????  Energy that leaves only footprints in the sand.

Offline little john

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I wonder what steps are taken to ensure that what is being listened for 'out there' aren't reflections of something initially transmitted from Earth which has then bounced-off one or more celestial bodies, radar-style ?  This must be something those guys have considered ...
LJ
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