Want to split hive, but can't find queen.

[bossqwjw]

I have a hive that has multiple swarm cells, and I looked thru it probably longer than i should but I can't find the queen to do a simulated swarm split.
 Is there a good way to split it without finding the queen, or should I give it another go at finding her to do a proper split?

[RHBee]

Look up post by sc-bee. Got a queen excluder?

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,44082.0.html

[drlonzo]

Put your bees through a shaker box.  Nail a queen excluder to the bottom of an unused or old super.  Place duct tape around the inside of th box about 3 inches from the queen excluder.  Dump bees into the shaker above frames that you are going to use.  Queen can't get through.  Duct tape keeps bees from coming over the sides as they don't like the feel of the duct tape according to M Palmer.

[Bush_84]

Maybe she is already gone. 

[bossqwjw]

Looks interesting! Will have to give it a try tomorrow, cause I don't want to go back today. Put the girls thru enough for one day.
Do have an old queen/swarm trap on that my grand father used to use to keep them from swarming till I get back.
Would be great to catch her in it but would rather do a split

[Wolfer]

Maybe she is already gone. 

This is my first thought.

[RHBee]

Looks interesting! Will have to give it a try tomorrow, cause I don't want to go back today. Put the girls thru enough for one day.
Do have an old queen/swarm trap on that my grand father used to use to keep them from swarming till I get back.
Would be great to catch her in it but would rather do a split

Don't worry about their feelings. While there is daylight there is time. No time like the present.

[iddee]

taranov swarming

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html

[RHBee]

taranov swarming

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html

Thanks iddee,  that looks like a good method for spring splits. I've looked at it but never tried.

[bossqwjw]

Maybe she is already gone. 

This is my first thought.

I thought about that too, but the hive is full of bees. If they swarmed already and 60% went with her, I would have loved to see it.
I don't think she is gone.

[GSF]

They may have superseded her.

[RHBee]

They may have superseded her.

One thing is sure..you won't know till you look.

[JackM]

First, do you have eggs?  Eggs = queen there.  If so, just do the split but make sure each half has fresh eggs.  Check again in 3 days, the one with eggs will be the one with the queen.  Don't have to see her.  (I never seem to be able to see my queens, but this method gets me where I want to be and not as much messing with their lives, done and over with.

[10framer]

First, do you have eggs?  Eggs = queen there.  If so, just do the split but make sure each half has fresh eggs.  Check again in 3 days, the one with eggs will be the one with the queen.  Don't have to see her.  (I never seem to be able to see my queens, but this method gets me where I want to be and not as much messing with their lives, done and over with.

this was closer to my way of thinking.  since there are swarm cells i'd just make an even split making sure that each hive got swarm cells, open brood, nurse bees and stores.

[BeeMaster2]

First question is were the queen cells capped? If so, they probably already swarmed. If you do a split and you cannot find the queen and you think she is still in there, move both hives to make her think she already swarmed. If the cells are capped and you still have lots of bees, make sure both hives have one or 2 queen cells and move one of them. Do this before any hatch. Good luck.
Jim

[bossqwjw]

 First off, I want to say "Thanks!" for all of the good advice.

 Went back into the hive yesterday and looked back through it. I had no eggs, or queen.
 But I did have 4 queen cells, a bunch of capped/uncapped brood and lots of bees. So I did my split.

 As I was finishing up the lady across the street came over and asked me if I wanted a swarm of bees. She noticed them in a tree when she came home from work, about half way up a magnolia tree 20 feet or so.

By the time I got over there they had moved into a smaller magnolia tree, 7 feet off the ground. So got a bucket and collected a nice sized swarm about the size of a soccer ball.  :mrgreen:

[MsCarol]

Me thinks your neighbor lady answered the question. :-D

So one hive now equals three.

Along the same lines. I made a split on Saturday although I did find the queen and she is now in an 8 frame Medium with 2 frames of honey, 1 of mostly pollen, 2 frames of mixed brood including the one she was on, 2 frames of capped brood and one empty undrawn frame plus several good shakes of extra bees. As I don't have a separate yard, this new nuc is right next to the old hive which consists of 4 mediums. I left fresh eggs for them to make a new queen. I figured any field worker drift into the hive with the queen wouldn't harm the larger original hive.

My question is how soon will I need to add a second box to the new hive? The queen is still laying well but her age is unknown.

I am more interested in "growing bees" right now although the white clover is just starting to bloom so I am guessing the now queenless hive will use the broodless break to haul in the stores so I may have enough real honey to both Robinhood as well as rob a bit for myself and a gift to the neighbors.

As of yesterday both hive entrances were busy. My third hive had to be moved over a few feet thus my bee yard has been chaos the last weekend!!! :laugh:

[RHBee]

Based on the description of your colony, I'm betting the swarm is your bees.

[BeeMaster2]

First off, I want to say "Thanks!" for all of the good advice.

 Went back into the hive yesterday and looked back through it. I had no eggs, or queen.
 But I did have 4 queen cells, a bunch of capped/uncapped brood and lots of bees. So I did my split.

 As I was finishing up the lady across the street came over and asked me if I wanted a swarm of bees. She noticed them in a tree when she came home from work, about half way up a magnolia tree 20 feet or so.

By the time I got over there they had moved into a smaller magnolia tree, 7 feet off the ground. So got a bucket and collected a nice sized swarm about the size of a soccer ball.  :mrgreen:

So nice of them to drop down to easy reach. :-D
They were waiting for you to provide them their new hive.
Enjoy.
Jim

[bossqwjw]

 It was nice that they would cooperate.......... I don't really expect them to do it again. Bees do what Bees do. :th_thumbsupup:

[RHBee]

It was nice that they would cooperate.......... I don't really expect them to do it again. Bees do what Bees do. :th_thumbsupup:

Call it lucky. Have fun.

[BeeMaster2]

My father in law helped his neighbor get into beekeeping. One day they called him into the back yard to show him a swarm from one of their hives that landed 60' up in a Toby tree. They asked him what can they do. His reply, "watch them". The next day they were all looking at them and they took off and went into my father in law's garage and moved into one of his supers that was stacked up in a pile. He took the super, put a top and a bottom on it and gave them back their swarm.
Talk about getting lucky.
Jim

[Jim134]

How to harvest queenless nurse bees without ever spotting the queen: 

    Move the donor colony to the side, and put a bottom board and empty hive body down in its place. From the donor colony, put a couple of frames of brood into the center of the hive body, and then fill it out with drawn comb and honey.  Then place another empty box on top to act as a funnel.  Shake all the bees off the remaining combs into the “funnel.”  When you’re done shaking, gently brush the bees down off the sides of the funnel box, using very gentle smoke wafted above them to guide them.  The point of this is to make sure that you’ve gotten the queen into the bottom box.

    Once you’ve got all the bees into the bottom box, then put a queen excluder over it, and stack the rest of the combs back over it.  The nurse bees will quickly move up through the excluder to cover the brood.  In an hour, it will be easy to harvest queenless nurse bees from the upper boxes, and the older bees will return to the lower box to take care of the queen and brood.  After harvesting the nurse bees, you can add the combs to other hives.




                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[sc-bee]

Look up post by sc-bee. Got a queen excluder?

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,44082.0.html

Kinda like this Jim ;) Add some duct tape a few inches above the bottom of the shaker box. They don't like to climb the tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3mKPm0MC2w