Author Topic: Last Newbie question for this year (Read 2353 times)

Jeff L · « **on:** October 12, 2006, 01:52:52 am »

I keep reading here about reducing the size of a hive for the winter.

My hive is a cutout from a wild hive. This whole hive is set in a 10 frame deep super without frames. All the bees are there. I have a 10 frame deep super above that with drawn frames. They are making new comb that just now is becoming attached to the underside of these drawn frames. (Drawn meaning drawn with beeswax) But my bees are still not using these frames themselves.

I put a poultry feeder in a frameless deep super on top of the above. So 3 deep supers in all. 3 boxes high. The poultry feeder is working FANTASTIC btw. Thanks Kirk-O, and BB for the gravel tip in the feeding ring. No drowning and no more robbers. Good stuff.

So here's my question: Should I delete the middle drawn super as no bees are doing anything there, or just leave them alone?? If I remove it they will cluster close to the feeder and MAYBE use it through the winter. If I don't remove it , they most likely won't travel up and use it. Sacto CA winters are very mild btw. Rarely below freezing, so maybe I should just let them be and see what happens.

These bees have been re-storing honey in the old combs and taking syrup like crazy. The hive is very heavy, and has many more bees coming and going than when I first took it home. Thousands versus maybe 500 bees or so. But..... since this hive is in a frameless box, I can't really judge the strength of it. Very hard to tell with a hive like this versus a standard framed hive. Hard to see INTO and figure out what's happening inside. Just a big CHUNK of comb that I can see the top of, but don't know what is beneath.

Thanks

Jeff

Brian D. Bray · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2006, 10:05:13 pm »

Now that you have a major mess (and an illegal hive--non-removeable comb) let it set over the winter then shake the thing into a hew home with removeable frames and comb, if possible, and foundation if not.

Jeff L · « **Reply #2 on:** October 15, 2006, 11:58:02 pm »

That's ALWAYS been my plan. Get them through the winter and then delete the bottom box where the bees reside. I've typed this many times.

Good for me for not killing this hive as it was in the entrance to a grain silo where workers go in and out of. Instead I took it home and it is doing well. May be a mess to you pal, but to me it's a LIVING hive rather than a DEAD one. Which is better huh?

Read the question I typed and give me an answer since you seem to be the 'know it all' here. Mess my arse!!!!!! They're alive!!! They wouldn't be without me taking care of them. Think about it.

Jeff

Brian D. Bray · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2006, 02:31:09 am »

Getting too attached to you bees is like people treating animals like children. It tends to render ones objectivity useless. I agree that the hive is alive and doing well. The point is that the mess was unnecessary and if it had been done differently the mess would have been avoid and the hive would be a year or two head of where it is now.
No, I'm not a know it all, I learn things here all the time, or at least develop ideas from things related within the forum.
Although, FYI I started beekeeping at the age of 11 in 1959 under the tuteledge of a mentor who started beekeeping in 1899. My great-grandfather and his brothers and fathers all kept--In fact info at hand suggests the Smith family of western PA still practices it to this day.
Please take the suggestions and admonitions as they are intended and put a coat over the thin skin.

Robo · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2006, 09:29:44 am »

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.........

Let's take a deep breath now.

Jeff L,

Perhaps you did announce your plans many times, but it may have been a good idea to explain again. I too did not know your grand plan. Yes it is a good thing that you saved the bees and yes you do have a mess going. But we all started out as a new beekeeper at one time and we have all learned how to do things better. The difference is, you have a lot more knowledge/mentorship available to you with this forum than Brian or I did when we started. I would suggest you not loose your cool when you don't like the answer you get, remember, everything here is free. If you don't like it, ignore it. Too many more outbreaks like this and you won't get people responding to your questions and you'll loose the potential benefits of this forum.

It would have been better if you took the cut-out comb and placed it in frames instead of just placing it in an empty box. This is what I think you might end up doing next spring anyways, unless you can get the queen to move up and start laying in the drawn framed box. For now, if they are not using the drawn framed box I would remove it. Next spring I would flip the unframed box over (upside down) and place the drawn frame box on top again and hope the queen moves up and starts laying. If she does, put a queen excluder over the unframed box until all the brood has hatched and then remove it.

Zoot · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2006, 05:54:40 pm »

This may sound like it's a bit out on a tangent but it does come to bear: a while back a so called "vegan" type posted a link that, at first glance, sounded absurdly critical of beekeeping (remember the slavery parallel?)

If anyone took the time to read it, and of even more interest, the numerous subsequent links that were attached to the original, they would have stumbled upon some fascinating, well researched facts, some that could be cosntrued as criticism (though not all).

A re-occurring issue was the damage caused to the industry (beekeeping) and the environment (ie: feral bee pop.) by both irresponsible management behavior (usually the commercial types) and by well intended but otherwise harmful, ill-informed behavior (often the hobbyists). I found much of this info to be extremely interesting and have corroborated much of it through sources at Beltsville, etc. After all, Varroa mites didn't swim to North America. Small hive beetles didn't walk up north from Florida. The more I learn the more I feel a deeper responsibility to think of the much bigger picture; the lives of my bees, while certainly deserving of my best efforts, are immaterial and even expendable when considered against the needs of and my obligations to the environment. Just a thought.

Jeff L · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2006, 02:14:53 am »

Brian, I'm similar to you I think when it comes to enjoying more of a rural lifestyle. My family farms 3000 acres of rice in CA. With farming comes contact with animals, birds and insects. I like them all. I've raised ducks, chickens, pheasants, injured barn owls, short eared owls, and redtail hawks. I have nesting boxes for barn owls that are used always. Even have a pair of great horned owls that use one of my boxes every year. I tell this to birders and they refuse to believe that great horned owls use my box. Oh well. Doesn't matter. I know. 5 years in a row now. They're my favorites btw. Top of the food chain they are. I have a great collection of pigeon bands that I've collected from below this nesting box. Minus the pigeons. Anyhow... Now I have a bee hive.....

Am I attached to my bees? Yes! My 12 yr. old Border Collie died recently, and so did my 12 yr. old cat that I rescued from under a bridge where some dirtbag dumped the whole litter. I retreived the whole litter, kept one and found homes for the rest. I have no pets as of now beyond these bees. I like pets. Should I have put them in framed supers? Yes. Did I have bee knowledge at that time? Not an ounce. I do now from from the info I've received here. Don't fault me for being a rookie. Ya gotta start somewhere. My 'mess' hopefully will become a non-mess next spring. That's always been my plan. If I can raise Raptors, I can raise bees. I think. We'll see. Both aren't friendly or appreciative of what I do for them btw

Robo, thanks for the reply. If you read above you'll see my beekeeping skills were non-existent at the time of capturing this wild hive. I honestly had help from someone who supposedly knew his stuff. I do know now he doesn't, but won't go there. His intentions were honest though. There's much better info here. Live and learn. Thanks for the info about flipping the box over. I think Brian or someone else said this also. Glad I now have a suit. Flipping this hive over sounds scary. It's VERY heavy and very full of bees, but I'll do it. It's gotta be easier than having mama great horned owl clicking her beak at me with bad intentions on her mind.
Thanks for the replies! Points taken.

Jeff

Robo · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2006, 10:13:28 am »

Jeff,

Hind sight is 20/20 and we have all suffered from it. I don't believe anyone here has any intent other than support your effort in a positive way. Perhaps wording like "you have a mess" can easily be interpreted as critical, but I don't think that was the intent. As you state, you where new and got into beekeeping by chance of the moment verses a planned out attack.

I understand your intentions were good and you tried the best way you could think of. Trust me, I have made much worse decisions than this in my lifetime.

At this point, you need to get the hive thru the winter and then in spring worry about getting them into a removeable frame environment. Good luck and keep us posted.