Author Topic: First Cut Out ~ Any Advice? (Read 8645 times)

Acebird · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2016, 08:46:44 am »

Quote from: iddee on July 22, 2016, 12:43:47 pm

WALK AWAY....... NO, RUN.

Well I think you are opening up a can of worms if you charge on your first cut out. If you charge then you take on an obligated and most likely you are not prepared and it results in a flop with damage to the structure. I don't think your first cut out should be to get free bees. I think it should be for the experience and education of the process that you are paying for with your time (maybe some money in equipment).
As I said, I have no experience with a cut out but I could estimate the repairs and get paid for what I know well. I also know how to keep the repairs to a minimum which is the greater cost of ridding the bees from the structure.

If I didn't know the person I would get his/her signature on a statement that says, "I will make an attempt to remove the bees and I am not responsible for damages. There is no guarantee that I will be successful in removing the colony."

mtnb · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:22:49 am »

That's where I'm at acebird. I have no experience doing this at all and if I were to charge him, I would really feel responsible if something went amok. He understands that I'm a new beekeeper and this will be my first time attempting such a thing. I'm not doing it to get free bees or anything. I want to do it to learn more about bees and get experience working with "wild" bees. I also just feel bad for the guy because they're now showing up going through his store and there's really no other option for him than to just kill them. Which I don't want either.

This is an old building and removing the panels in the ceiling to get too them won't be very difficult. Working in a tight area for an extended time will be, yes. I understand this. I didn't realize it will take as long as you all say but I understand that now. I've mentioned that I have thought about the whole thing and I will not attempt this without a bee vac. I will build one this weekend. My husband is a carpenter and contractor so if repairs are needed, he can do that. But I don't believe the repairs will be that involved at all.

The owner and I have talked, but not really in depth about either of our expectations, so that's what will need to happen first of all. I'll call him today to have a sit down with him and outline exactly what I plan on doing, what could and may happen, how far I will go with clean up and what he will need to do as well.

I'm sorry guys. It's been a long week already. I wish I could stay longer but have to get to work. I really really do appreciate each and everyone of your words of advice and experience. I put my hubby on building me a bee vac today.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:40:36 am »

My take on cutouts.

1) do not try to save any honey. Scrap it all. If you really think it's not been sprayed, then feed it to the bees unless there is some way to actually keep it clean. Usually it's covered in dirt and sawdust by the time you're done.

2) do not try to save ALL the brood. Go for the big chunks. Figure on trying to save 50%. Try to be sure to get some emerging brood (to quickly repopulate) and some open brood (in case you miss the queen and to anchor them to the new hive). If you try to save it all you often don't have enough bees to cover it and the SHB or the wax moths take over.

3) do not use a bee vac. I've probably killed more bees with a vacuum than anything else. If you insist, then take precautions not to overheat them and to cushion their crash landing int he vacuum. I just don't use them. Piles of sticky, overheated, dead bees are just too depressing...

4) keep an eye out for the queen. Any cluster of bees is suspect but especially if there is a tight knot in the middle of the cluster. Shake or brush all the bees into the new hive.

5) have a bucket of water to wash out the brush as it will get very sticky. Have a bucket with a lid for the honey. Another bucket for empty comb. Another bucket for scrapped brood. A hairclip queen catcher for if you see the queen. Some lemongrass essential oil. Put four drops in the new hive and ten or so on the outside of the new hive. If you have some QMP (Queen Mandibular Pheromone) use some of that. If it's the PsuedoQueen plastic kind, use a full tube or at least half in the new hive. If it's in the form of "queen juice" (old queens in alcohol) use four drops of the alcohol in the new hive. Have some pinesol to spray in the old location to cover pheromones there. I agree you should charge in the long run, but it is hard to honestly charge money for a service when you've never done it before. But as Idee says, once you realize how much work it is, you'll see why you should charge...

Acebird · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:38:16 pm »

The bee vac should be constructed like a cyclone dust collector and there will be no wall for them to smash against. The top should be clear so you can see if the bees are clogging the LARGE screen area of the vacuum source. If the colony is large then it will take multiple emptying of the collection container. Where to put them needs to be considered.
A bee can fly about 35 mph so the air velocity only needs to be about 40-50. A standard shop vac is no good because at the end of the hose is a sharp 90 degree turn that the bees will smack into and squish. Do not make your collection container like a shop vac. Make it like a cyclone where the air flow spins at the top of the container and slows down towards the bottom.
For those that use a bee vac do you concentrate on the nurse bees or the flying foragers? Not knowing I would go for the nurse bees and not the air borne bees. What say you?

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:55:42 pm »

Ace,
Use the bee vac for the field bees and the guard bees. The nurse bees will stay on the comb and care for the larvae.
Once the guard bees and field bees are gone, the hive usually calms down.
Jim

GSF · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2016, 02:09:35 pm »

MT Bee Girl, we all wish you the best of luck.., keep us posted.

Rurification · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2016, 04:03:32 pm »

Yes! Best of luck. My cutout was hard, but one of the best experiences I've had. Keep us posted!

Acebird · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2016, 06:33:52 pm »

Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 23, 2016, 12:55:42 pm

Ace,
Use the bee vac for the field bees and the guard bees. The nurse bees will stay on the comb and care for the larvae.
Once the guard bees and field bees are gone, the hive usually calms down.
Jim

Well that makes sense. I didn't think of it that way but what you say makes perfect sense.

mtnb · « **Reply #28 on:** July 24, 2016, 10:40:15 am »

Yes, that totally makes sense. Thank you all soooo much for your time and advice and the well wishes! I will let you all know how it goes. I'm talking with the owner tomorrow morning.

Psparr · « **Reply #29 on:** July 24, 2016, 10:45:06 am »

One other thing. Good leather gloves to handle the comb. Makes it a lot easier not getting stung in the fingers while handling the comb.

mtnb · « **Reply #30 on:** July 24, 2016, 11:09:48 am »

Yeah about that. I spoke with a removal guy from MS who told me to buy some of those heavy thick chemical use type gloves. Which I did but it seems women don't use them oftem for I found only mediums and larges. lol He said to use those bacause honey would be everywhere and the leather ones would get ruined and sticky and when they get mad they'll poke me right through the leather.

Also, how often exactly do I need to clean out this vacuum? They'll get hot and hungry in there right? My hubby built it yesterday. :)

divemaster1963 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 24, 2016, 11:39:56 am »

Mt beegirl
MICROFLEX DURA FLOCK DFK-608 FLOCK LINED DISPOSABLE NITRILE GLOVES, these are the gloves I use. They are thick enough the bees don't sting thru. Only stings is if I squeeze a bee. You can feel detail your hands don't sweat as much. I use two to three pair per job. Only problem is they will rip when you catch a nail. When I get honey covered I just wash my hands with gloves on and keep going. The neutral green color the bees seem to ignore. I use them exclusively because they are that great. Call a mechanic shop and see if they have a snap-on or any tool rep. And get there no. To see if they care them. I get them for about 18-22.00 per box of fifty. I use the large size because they run little on the small side. I have small short finger hands. You may use the med. Once you try them iknow you will love them. You will use them for everything around house. I even wash and hang dry ones in tub and reuse until they rip

They worth their weight in gold.

John

mtnb · « **Reply #32 on:** July 25, 2016, 08:45:55 am »

Awesome. Thank you John! I'll look into getting those.

Yvonne

mtnb · « **Reply #33 on:** July 27, 2016, 01:29:02 am »

Done and done. lol I am pooped. lol I started setting up at 9 this morning but forgot to look what time I actually started. Probably 9:30 or so. They were hived and the cracks were sealed around 7 pm. I found the queen by sheer stupid luck! They are very small bees with very elongated abdomens. Many very black bees and the queen is also black and super beautiful! I just have to go back tomorrow and clean up a little. I'll post pictures and the full story tomorrow afternoon.

I would soooooooo do that again!!!! For money! lol

Incredible experience.

Yvonne

Psparr · « **Reply #34 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:41:52 am »

Good job!

iddee · « **Reply #35 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:23:40 am »

Congratulations. Glad all went well. Now you understand all the warnings.

GSF · « **Reply #36 on:** July 27, 2016, 08:10:48 am »

I can't help but giggle, been there done that. Lot of work.

Acebird · « **Reply #37 on:** July 27, 2016, 08:20:21 am »

Great job Yvonne. Nine and 1/2 hours so far. How did the hubbie's bee vac work for you? What is the most time consuming part? I can't imagine being in a suit for over 9 hours even if it was in October let alone July/August. It would be soaked and stuck to me like a wet T-shirt.

Rurification · « **Reply #38 on:** July 27, 2016, 08:43:50 am »

I was thinking about you all day. I'm so glad it went well! Can't wait for details.

jimineycricket · « **Reply #39 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:30:49 am »

All right! it has been a very good week for you. Now you have twice as many hives.

JS