Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS => Topic started by: latebee on February 24, 2005, 11:21:59 pm
-
If I am not interested in having my bees make comb honey why would an excluder be a good idea? I am inexperienced, but last year one of my colonies had 2 deep hive bodies, with 3 medium supers on top and the queen never left the deeps to travel upward. Is this a case of a poor queen or normal behavior?
-
They are useful for certain purposes - none of which is necessary to normal hive operation. I have several and use none unless I am trying keep a queen in a certain super. More details later, off to work right now. But are the necessary - no. :)
-
I think they are becuase I dont want bee brood in my honey for sale, bye :D
-
UK regulations are now such that you cannot take honey for sale from comb in which brod has been laid.
If your brood box is big enough - why not use them? I ran all my colonies with them last year, and provided you follow the #1 rule which is if you stick a box of foundation on, as the 1st super - it really should have at least one drawn comb in it above the brood nest, or even a part drawn one.
This is essential to encourage the bees up. Once they come through then everything is fine - full boxes of foundation can be used above that - its just 1 frame in the box should be drawn in the first super above the excluder if you can help it.
If you are beginner, clearly you do not have drawn comb, so you could start the process by putting in a single frame of super into the brood chamber just for a few hours/day, just so they "start" work on it, then move it up. In this way, their is no chance the queen will try to lay in it.
Adam
-
UK regulations are now such that you cannot take honey for sale from comb in which brod has been laid.
Do you know why that is? Seems odd.
-
UK regulations are now such that you cannot take honey for sale from comb in which brod has been laid.
Do you know why that is? Seems odd.
No, but food hygience is my guess. I'll try find some more.
Adam
-
If you are beginner, clearly you do not have drawn comb, so you could start the process by putting in a single frame of super into the brood chamber just for a few hours/day, just so they "start" work on it, then move it up. In this way, their is no chance the queen will try to lay in it.
Adam
My experience last year, using the Rite-Cell, was that they needed more baiting. I allowed them free access to the super with foundation until they began drawing comb on several frames. But when I put the excluder on, they stopped building completely. Although they freely came and went through the excluder, they didn't complete the job until I removed the excluder and eventually allowed the queen to lay ome eggs in one frame. Then the excluder seemed to have no effect on the workers, and they went on to draw out the whole super and store some honey.
-- Kris
-
UK regulations are now such that you cannot take honey for sale from comb in which brod has been laid.
How the heck do they police that. Geesh, and some consider the larvae a delicousy.
-
I think they are becuase I dont want bee brood in my honey for sale, bye :D
I would rather pass over the 1 or 2 frames that have brood in them while extracting than give up 10-20% of total yield.
-
I think they are becuase I dont want bee brood in my honey for sale, bye :D
I tried one last year, but the bees wouldn't even go through it. The queen laid some brood, but it was all gone by the time I was ready to take the super off.
-
My bees didn't like it. I even tried the trick of putting a couple frames of drawn comb up there, and they still hated passing the excluder and wouldn't work up there. As soon as I took it off, no problem. I've never had the queen lay eggs higher than the two brood boxes I give, but surely it happens. Just because it didn't happen to me, doesn't mean it can't.
Beth
-
NC state bee inspector said absolutely no at a meeting I just attended.
Metal excluders shreds the wings of workers as they pass through.
Just repeating what I was told!
-
I guess I can understand it. Ever since I ate that honey from comb that was once used as brood comb, I've been growing an extra limb. I find it handy for scratching my head while I ponder the new rules. bahahahahahahaha
Excluders are handy when you need one, but as a general rule, Robo has it nailed. They can really hamper getting comb drawn as several people have already posted. If you are on a heavy heavy nectar flow, they push right through it because they need the room to cure it. If it's a light flow, they can and often just fill up the brood nest . You know what happens next. Many of the commercial guys swear by them, but I believe it was a commercial guy that described them as honey excluders to me 30 years ago. Set up 1 hive without one, another with one, and see what which results work best for the management style you want to use.
I have a couple. They work really well for cooling freshly baked bread.
-
Some interesting thoughts for a new guy. Glad I read this post
Rich V.
-
Set up 1 hive without one, another with one, and see what which results work best for the management style you want to use.
also try a 3rd hive with one and with a top entrance and see if there is a difference. I have seen putting a top entrance on a hive will lure them into drawing out supers to.
-
I have a couple. They work really well for cooling freshly baked bread.
Try cookies too! They work great for chocolate chip cookies! :lol:
-
I've had bees for 30 years and haven't routinely used excluders for the last 29. I have some around. They are useful on occasion for things like finding a queen in a hot hive, or regressing bees to small cell, or keeping the queen from leaving with a new package, but I don't routinely use them.
-
I've used them when hiving swarms, making section honey, etc. How do you use them when regressing your bees Michael? I'm starting a couple packages on small cell soon and I don't remember seeing anything about using excluders. I want all the tools when I start this.
-
How do you use them when regressing your bees Michael?
By putting the queen in one box below the excluder you can gradually move full honey and pollen and capped brood above the excluder to feed in new comb in the brood nest. I don't recommend moving open brood up or they bees above the excluder may raise a new queen. (It has happened to me). But that way you don't have to do shakedowns, but you can keep the queen from using the large cell comb as you swap it out.
-
DOH!!.... I thought there might be some secret technique about to be divulged. Good thing it wasn't a snake, it would have bit me!! bahahahahaha
-
Ok I got a question for the small cell guys , can a small cell queen go through a regular excluder or do you have to fing something smaller?
-
>Ok I got a question for the small cell guys , can a small cell queen go through a regular excluder or do you have to fing something smaller?
Most of the small cell people I know don't use an excluder. I don't. I HAVE used one while regressing, but not on a hive in normal situations.
A normal queen will go through an excluder. If you smoke them heavily enough and you'll often see the queen above the excluder. What she does when she REALLY wants to and what she does when it's just not convenient are two different things.
I'm sure a small cell queen CAN get through an excluder. But I know of some small cell beekeepers using them with no problems.
Try this on YOUR hive sometimes. If you have a flat (not bound) excluder, turn it 90 degrees so the ends stick out the sides of the hive and the ends of the hive are open. I'll bet the queen doesn't cross it and I'll bet the bees will be happier for it.
-
>
Try this on YOUR hive sometimes. If you have a flat (not bound) excluder, turn it 90 degrees so the ends stick out the sides of the hive and the ends of the hive are open. I'll bet the queen doesn't cross it and I'll bet the bees will be happier for it.
thats interesting , that all the excluders I have are the metal flat one's, Ill have to try that one thanks MB.
-
I placed a queen excruder on one of my colonies last year as I wanted some cut comb honey new foundation only. The bees ignored the super, started filling up the upper parts of the frames in the deep just below it. I removed the excruder when they had about two inches of honey in those frames. The queen wouldn't cross that honey field and the workers drew out the foundation but ran out of time to make any comb honey. That excruder cost the girls two weeks of work up in the super.
:D Al
-
Thank you one and all,
After reading all the opinions,I think using a queen excluder for any reason other than experimentation(or other specific purpose) would be folly. Really appreciate all the input. :)