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Author Topic: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony  (Read 3338 times)

Offline Jeff

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Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« on: February 09, 2008, 10:48:10 am »
I installed my first and only colony last spring, but after a successful and productive season lost them all a few weeks ago to starvation. I'll be installing a new package in April, but have one question about reusing the foundations (plastic). Many of the dead bees are still bunched up on comb, and a number of cells have dead bees in them. Other than brushing off, do I need to tweezer any dead bees from cells, or will the new colony take care of that? I have a nuc and 2 supers, with comb drawn on all the frames of the 1st super and on most frames of the 2nd super; how do I prepare (clean?) all these frames for the new colony?

I really thought I had left enough honey for them last fall. I didn't take ANY honey from the 1st super, and left quite a bit from the 2nd. Unbelievably, nothing I had read or heard indicated that you have to feed in the winter (in Cincinnati). Don't I feel like an idiot.
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2008, 11:48:14 am »
Jeff, first off, welcome to our forum.  You will see that you have found an excellent site to ask questions, tell us of your experiences, you will get wonderful help here.  Welcome.

I will answer only one question, you will hear more.  You do not need to clean the dead bees out with tweezers.  Bees are one of the most hygienic of this world's critters, (of course, why would they not, they eat the food in the house that they live in).  They keep their homes impeccably clean (and steralized too with propolis gathered from the outside world).  So, let the bees do what they do well, clean up their frames, readying them for the next batch of bees that will live in those cells.  Have a wonderful day, love this life we live on this great earth.  Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline JP

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2008, 12:12:03 pm »
Jeff, like Cindi said, if you wanna pick the dead bees out, you can, if it makes you feel better, but they will get rid of them just the same. You could try tapping the frames a bit to see if some of the dead ones will fall out. As far as your hive starving, its not always about the cold, sometimes its about availability to find enough nectar for the bees to make enough honey to get them through winter. Last season was terrible for a lot of beekeepers because of drought conditions. If the flowers and trees aren't able to drink they can't put out that much nectar, and your area could have a bad crop that yr. This is why its important to check your hives throughout the yr to ensure they have enough food stores to survive. Good luck with your new hives.

Sincerely, JP
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2008, 12:42:28 pm »
Thank you both for the warm welcome and encouraging words. Losing my lone first hive was really depressing, but I'm beginning to see it just comes with the territory.

I'm sure I will be drawing on your expertise as I move forward. Most of my uncertainties the first year had to do with the 'correct' physical arrangement of all the woodenware: if/when to add a third sup, when/where to locate the queen excluder, etc. The timing of all that throws me, since I don't (yet) know what the determining factors are and how to recognize them. Then in the fall I got one of those "All Season Inner Covers" (Honey Run Apiaries) with the screened ventilation holes and styrofoam insert to replace the standard inner cover; yet another variable! (I've looked and advertised in vain for a glass jar with a 6" diameter lid which fits the styrofoam cutout to feed them with; wouldn't have imagined it to be that difficult to find the jar!!)

I've got a new package of Italians ordered for April (a local bee club brings up 150 or so packages from Kentucky, so I won't have to get them through the mail).

Thanks again for your generous assistance!!!
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2008, 05:12:47 pm »
>Other than brushing off, do I need to tweezer any dead bees from cells, or will the new colony take care of that?

The new colony will take care of that.
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2008, 10:38:35 am »
Jeff, I hear your plight.  My first years of beekeeping (and still today) were very overwhelming.  There is so much to understand and know about the bees.  Just keep reading and learning, that will be your key to unlocking so much undecisiveness.  Lean on our forum members to ask the questions. 

If you have specific things that you would like to learn about, use the search function in the forum, it will take you to many posts that will alleviate many of your needs to know things.  It is a powerful learning tool.

About the glass jar, bummer that it was such a difficult task.  The glass jar is not the only way to feed the bees.  It does not have to be an exact size, you can always alter your equipment in your colony, these things you will learn.  There are many, many posts about the feeding of the bees and methods that people use.  If you can spend some time doing some searching, do it, it will help you out so much you won't believe it.  So, good luck with your new bees, I am glad to see that you have kept your chin up and are carrying on....that is strength.  Have the most wonderful and great day, lovin' our lives we live.  Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 11:54:50 am »
My theory on cleaning up equipment for the bees is this.  If I think I will save the bees a lot of work and it won't be much work for me (comparatively) then I do it.  Example:  wax moth webs.  These are very difficult for the bees to get out and if a whole frame is webbed up, it's easy for me to just cut it out.  If it's easier for the bees than for me, I let the bees do it.  Bees are good at detail work.  Example:  dead bees head first in cells or mold on wax or dust blown into cells.
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Offline Cindi

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2008, 10:16:14 am »
Michael, so many times I have heard how bees are detail-oriented, that is their job keep their home clean and as sterile as they possibly can, who wouldn't, we like to eat off clean plates too.  You have made a comment that is worth speaking about, that is the mould on the combs, etc.  My comment is that I find it amazing that they can clean mould (and yep, I know that they can) off the frames and make them beautiful and shiney and new.  Some things I just marvel at, but what I wonder is, how do they clean mould?  Do you know?  Does anyone know?  I would be certainly more than curious, and you know, curiosity never got this cat.  Have a beautiful and wonderful day, love our earth.  Cindi
There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service

Offline Jeff

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2008, 11:39:14 am »
Thanks Michael - dead bees head-first in cells was my main concern, there doesn't seem to be any mold present, and it's not an overwhelming number of the former. I'll let my new occupants do the detail work.

As for the feeding, yes, I also have a more conventional top feeder, i.e. the split box with rafts to prevent drowning. I used that when first starting last Spring and as needed thereafter. The "All-Season" thing will theoretically make an even better inner cover while offering another way to feed, and I just found some 1/2 gallon jars with wide (just not the full 6") lids that will serve admirably I think. Just have to be careful about making the holes (i.e. not so big that the syrup drips down on them).

Here's a question: Could a conventional top feeder be left on in mid-summer and filled with just plain water? I don't know where in the radius from my house they find a plentiful source of water, but would effectively putting a significant source of water right in the hive be a good safety especially against drought conditions?

BTW, I'm mid-way through Holly Bishop's Robbing the Bees, and find it hard to put down. I'm going to be giving this book as gifts to friends and family, as it explains better than I could what draws me to beekeeping. Not only that, I think I'm getting as much useful information from it as I did from Delaplane's book, which is still the first and only supposed how-to book I've ever owned and read on the subject. At this point this amazing forum and my own trial and error look to be all I'll need.
"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is a little like expecting the bull not to attack you because you are a vegetarian."

Offline indypartridge

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2008, 08:51:03 am »
At this point this amazing forum and my own trial and error look to be all I'll need.
Are you involved in any local beekeeping clubs? I'd encourage you to get connected with local beeks. Online forums are great sources of info, but much of beekeeping is "local", and what works for me may not be good advice in your area. Plus, it's great to have a few nearby beeks you can call if there's a problem; or even if you just want them to go thru a hive with you and point out a few things.

Looks like there's some groups near you:
http://www.mvbeekeepers.org/
http://www.ohiostatebeekeepers.org/Regional%20%26%20County%20Clubs/regionalclubs.html
and a great seminar coming up the end of March:
http://warren.osu.edu/agriculture-natural-resources/copy_of_2007-southwestern-ohio-beekeeper-school

Offline CBEE

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2008, 12:52:23 pm »
Jeff,
I live just across the river from ya in campbell county KY. There are more beeks around here than you think :-D.
With the dry spell and derth we had last year I had to feed from august on just to make sure they had enough to overwinter on. One of the dryest summers I can ever remember. Whats your setup right now ? You using deeps for brood or all mediums ? Most people I know around here get their bees from Spille down in morning view. I believe he brings them up from georgia. Probably where your bees are coming from. Hang in there. Sometimes things happen that you have little control over. 

Offline Jeff

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2008, 05:37:44 pm »
CBEE, nice to hear from a near-neighbor. I have one deep and 3 mediums, but only left 2 mediums on for the winter. The first medium was full of honey, the second was about half full. When I opened the hive 2 weeks ago to discover the total loss, I also saw that there wasn't a bit of honey left. One of the state bee inspectors who had looked the hive over late in the season said I was leaving sufficient honey, but that obviously wasn't the case. Nor had he (or anyone) said anything about feeding them starting in August, though I was well aware of the drought. And I never fed them during the winter, because I'd read (and read again recently on this forum) that they won't take syrup when it's cold anyway. So it's sounding like they needed a deep and two full 10-frame mediums to survive.

I've ordered my next package through SWOBA, the Southwest Ohio Beekeepers Association based here in Cincinnati. Two of the members drive down to Kentucky and pick up around 150 packages of Italians, then you can pick yours up from one of their homes.

Thanks for the leads, Indypartridge. I attended that school last year in preparation for starting out. It was extremely helpful. I'll have to look into those other clubs you mentioned; SWOBA meets only every few months.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2008, 10:34:09 pm »
>Some things I just marvel at, but what I wonder is, how do they clean mould?  Do you know?  Does anyone know?

I've never watched that particular thing being cleaned up but I've seen then clean dirt off.  They do it with their mandibles.  They just chew off whatever they don't want and then they polish everything with propolis.

>Here's a question: Could a conventional top feeder be left on in mid-summer and filled with just plain water?

They will do better with an external source.  The water foragers aren't scouting the hive for water, they are scouting the countryside.  I take five gallon buckets and put long sticks in them vertically.  The bees crawl down to the water and few ever drown.  Once every few days empty them (to get rid of the mosquito larvae) and refill them.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline misfyredOhio

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Re: Newbee w/ question replacing lost colony
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2008, 12:46:52 am »
Jeff, I'm in Columbus, and this was my first year. I lost my first hive quickly due to laying workers. Then my second hive died this winter: my best guess (with the help of the friendly people on this forum) was that they got wet and froze to death. I'll never get used to this weather in Ohio: 60 degrees and raining on one day, 20 degrees and snowing on the next. Next year I will be sure to think more carefully about ventilation over the winter but at least, I'll be starting out with 30 frames already drawn out.

I'll never get used to this weather in Ohio: 60 degrees and raining on one day, 20 degrees and snowing on the next.

So what I'm saying, is I understand how you feel. People tell me not to give up.  ;)