What should a bee removal cost?

[bigbearomaha]

Settle down dude, you win.    you da bestest at macho bee removal.

We're all just comparing thoughts here.  it's all good.

big Bear

[iddee]

I'm settled, Bear.

The smoke you think you see from Ne. all the way to NC is just fog, not real smoke from my ears.   :lau:

[Scadsobees]

Sure, you are getting "free" bees and saving a beehive is nice and all, but I think that splitting a hive is "free" bees too and you can do that in the comfort of your own yard AND have it done in 15 minutes.  These are bees we're talking about, we're not rescuing angels  :roll:.

3 hours of hot sweaty sticky work for something that there are only a few people that will do it?  Charge!  Start out with what it is worth to you, most businesses will pay $200+ without blinking to get rid of the pesky bees.

[bigbearomaha]

You Da man Iddee, my hero brother.  I like when folks can talk, shoot the ...hoops...and walk away to drink another drink together later.  it's more fun.

Scads...they're not angels?  are you sure?  they have wings, they make the "nectar of the gods" and by golly, they make good things in the world grow.  some might indeed call those little angels.

But hey, I'm just a bear, all I really know is what part of the woods I'm in.   ;)

Big Bear

[specialkayme]

Charge!  Start out with what it is worth to you, most businesses will pay $200+ without blinking to get rid of the pesky bees.

I think we have differing views of what basis to charge for. You can either:
1. Charge whatever the largest amount is that you can get away with, i.e. whatever the 'market' for bee removal is; or
2. Charge whatever it is worth to you, i.e. slightly more than what it is worth for you NOT to go

I'm not saying which one of these is correct, it depends on the person and their views. But to me, if getting paid a colony + $150 isn't enough, but getting paid a colony + $160 is enough, you should be charging $160, and not more. To ask for more than what it is worth to you exhausts the resources of others in an unnecessary manner. If you say "they are willing to pay you $400, so why not take it?" because if they knew you were willing to do it for $160 they would have offered it, and you would have accepted it. Not knowing what the rate to pay a plumber is, and not wanting to insult them by offering them too little doesn't mean you should have to pay twice what the plumber thinks is a fair value just because you don't know any better.

But if you want to go with reasoning number one, who am I to say you are wrong. That is the way the entire capitalist system works. But then again, the capitalist system crashes every now and then . . . mainly because people become overly greedy.

[iddee]

OK, let's say you charge the 160. Then you have 8 more calls that are yellow jackets, don't take your offer, have sprayed the bees, or some other thing that stops you from getting the job. Do you take those trips as a loss, or do you add them to the 160 on the next job and charge 250?

[G3farms]

I think asking the right question on the phone before the trip will solve most of the problems.

1. Agree that they are indeed honey bees over the phone, have them email you pics. Agree that if you come out to look and they turn out not to be honey bees, or they have been sprayed with poison they owe you for a trip charge, say $25.00.
2. Agree that if scaffolding or a lift is needed that they can pick up that bill also (this summer I got a bee tree that was at 85 feet in the air, home owner wanted me to have the bees and rented a crane and man basket). Let them pay the bill so that there is not any mark up on equipment rental.
3. Let them know you are charging for the removal and agree on some kind of round about figure or hourly rate.
4. Discuss what type of building the bees are in (brick, block, stucco, wood siding, tree, barrel, etc.) and whether or not repairs will be made.
5. Now load up and go look at getting the bees
There are many things to consider. I will go 20 to 25 miles to pick up a swarm that is low to the ground (25' or lower).

G3

[JP]

 Some questions for specialkayme. Have you ever performed a cut out, if so how many? Tell us about your experience in this field. What have you charged if anything?


...JP

[G3farms]

here is a dandy I found a while back, kind of explains it better...............................................

That reminds me about the old Texan who had been trying to retire for years. He'd been working as a engineer in the industrial machining field for 40 years had seen all the generations of machinery come and go, had a hand in creating some of them.

He was bored with it all and wanted to quit working for somebody else so he decided when the opportunity was right he would just quit and become a consultant.

A few months later he quit his job and relaxed, starting playing golf and decided he was liking this retirement thing.

One day he got a frantic phone call from a company that was having problems with their manufacturing line. One of their most important machines was down and it was costing them $2000 an hour for every hour it was down.

He negotiated a deal to come out and look at it. $5000 up front, 1st class ticket and pay his expenses and he could be on a plane that afternoon and be on the line by midnight that night.

The panicked executive agreed, just crying get this thing up and running, we don't have anybody here who has been able to figure this thing out and we need this thing running!

To make a long story short the engineer/consultant shows up at the plant, sniffs around the machine for a few hours and narrows down the problem. The executive says, "Well, what do we need to do?". The savvy old man says, it's gonna cost you $30,000 and I can have the machine up and running by 11:00 am next morning.

The executive says, done. The old engineer makes a phone call and gets a $200.00 part over nighted to the factory on schedule for a 9:00am delivery the next day.

By 10:30 the old engineer has the line up and running and he goes to the executives office to collect his check.

The executive is angry, he says, $^*? All this took was a $200 part? We thought something drastic was wrong with the machine, how can you accept a $30,000.00 pay check for 1 nights worth of work?

The savvy old engineer hands him his invoice and says, don't worry, I broke it all out for you on my invoice so it would all make sense to you.

The executive looks at the invoice, it says

Parts $200.00
Knowledge to know which one was broken $29,800.00

The executive wrote him the check.

[G3farms]

JP I know you are the cut out KING, but just wondering how many yellow jacket call do you get to go on?

G3

[JP]

JP I know you are the cut out KING, but just wondering how many yellow jacket call do you get to go on?

G3

This year was very active on the yellow jacket front, I removed 3 YJ colonies, I mean eradicated for clarity sakes, I don't save YJs. Usually 1 or 2 YJ colonies per year is average for me.


...JP

[specialkayme]

Some questions for specialkayme. Have you ever performed a cut out, if so how many? Tell us about your experience in this field. What have you charged if anything?


...JP

I have not performed a cut out of a home, or any other building. I hope no one was implying that I had. I am not saying that I wouldn't, or that I would do it for free, but I have never been called, or been asked by anyone to do a cut out.

I have done swarm retrievals, which I do not charge for, permitting that it's a reasonable drive away. But I think most people don't charge for swarm removals, from what I can tell.

[Scadsobees]

Scads...they're not angels?  are you sure?  they have wings, they make the "nectar of the gods" and by golly, they make good things in the world grow.  some might indeed call those little angels.

But do angels cause sore, red, itchy, sometimes very large, welts??  You could go way the other way and say that they are "fallen angels" and we all know what those are  :evil:.

[Scadsobees]

But to me, if getting paid a colony + $150 isn't enough, but getting paid a colony + $160 is enough, you should be charging $160, and not more.

See, that is where the logic breaks down somewhat.  To a newbee who needs bees, then it makes sense, and I haven't charged for the few cutouts that I've done, but I've never done a cutout if I didn't need the bees.  In that I agree with you, and that is why I said to charge what you are comfortable with.  Plus, that "free" hive is weakened, disoriented, discouraged, and likely queenless, so it isn't like you are gaining a full productive hive, but a weak hive that has a good chance of being ravaged by moths and beetles and will need a lot of personalized attention for a while.

But for most of the people that regularly do cutouts, they don't need the bees.  In fact most of them are given away from what I read of the few that do it a lot.

That was my point...I can get a "free" hive much much easier by doing a split, so that doesn't factor into the price.  The money has to be high enough and the cutout easy enough to get over my dislike of cutouts, so its approaching $3700 by now  :-D.

[specialkayme]

But do angels cause sore, red, itchy, sometimes very large, welts?? 

I don't know. I'll tell you if I ever find out.

Plus, that "free" hive is weakened, disoriented, discouraged, and likely queenless, so it isn't like you are gaining a full productive hive, but a weak hive that has a good chance of being ravaged by moths and beetles and will need a lot of personalized attention for a while.

But in a sense, a package or a swarm is really a weakened hive. So why would you take a swarm that needs help and attention for free, but not a cutout?

But for most of the people that regularly do cutouts, they don't need the bees.  In fact most of them are given away from what I read of the few that do it a lot.

There is a big difference between "need" and "want". I have never met a beekeeper that "needs" another hive, but I have also never met a beekeeper that wouldn't take, or doesn't necessarily "want" another hive. Even a commercial beekeeper with 8,000 hives would probably take another one, or 'want' it.

But if  a person is doing a cut out, and they don't even want the hive, and are likely to give it away later, why do it? Instead of spending two hours of work to get something that you don't even want, why not just use a can of raid? Or better yet, have the owner of the house use a can of raid? If you claim it's "for the good of the girls," then you shouldn't have a problem doing it for free (or at cost).

So the entire mentality breaks down. If a person doing a removal doesn't 'need' the hive, and most of the time doesn't 'want' the hive, only to give it away later, there must be an alternative motive to do a cut out. Either it's for the good of the bees (to which point you should be inclined to do it for free) or you are doing it for the good of the homeowner (to which point you should be motivated to do it at the lowest cost possible, again, for the good of the homeowner). If you don't fall into any of those categories, you are just looking for a paycheck, and if that's the case why not pass it off to a beekeeper that actually want's the hive?

Regardless of motives, just ask yourself, does greed play a role in measuring your price? If you would be willing to do it for a lower price, then greed must take a role.

[G3farms]

JP I totaly forgot the business you are in also, what I meant was honeybee calls that turned out to be yellow jackets.

[G3farms]

specialhayme, do you mind if I ask what you do for a living? If you are wanting to do something good for the home owner at the lowest possible price, then COME ON DOWN to the farm, I have plenty of fence row that needs cleaned out  :-D :-D

Just pulling your chain a little.

Next spring find a local beek and help them do a cut out or two, you will find out real quick it is not all fun and games. Most of the time it is hot dirty work with lots of clean up in the end, and then repairs to be made. That is just to get out of the home owners face.

Good luck and I look forward to your first cut out come spring, and if you can't find any come down to see me.

G3

[iddee]

>>>>Instead of spending two hours of work to get something that you don't even want, why not just use a can of raid?<<<<

#1, it is against the law in NC.

#2, It would leave an unknown amount of honey in the house to make a terrible mess and attract other pests. The goal is to rid the house of pests, not replace one with many.

#3, The last cut out I did, I left home at 10:00 AM, 4 of us worked until 5:30 PM. I gave the bees away.
Where do you get the 2 hours from? I don't think I have ever had a 2 hour cut out.

Why do I do it? Because it needs to be done.
Why do I charge? Because charging for a service is the American way.

PS. I am retiring from cut outs. Next year I will take newbies out and teach them how. You are close enough to make the trip. You are invited. In fact, after the first three, I will pay you 100.00 for each one you do with me, and that is using my equip. and supplies. I'll be waiting to hear from you.

[Kathyp]

i find doing a few each year to be kind of fun.  they are all different with different challenges.  most of mine are outbuildings and i have gotten some nice hives.  i have also gotten some duds. i have met some really nice people, and never found it to be a waste of time.  i don't charge, but i take donations to the gas tank. 

take iddee up on his offer.  i'd go learn from him in a heartbeat if i were close.  you will learn some new skills, and you will learn more about bees from a few cutouts than you'll get from books,  movies, or keeping boxes of bees in the backyard.

[specialkayme]

specialhayme, do you mind if I ask what you do for a living?

Law school student. In that respect, I guess I don't really make a living (?) at least I don't get paid to do anything . . . yet at least.

I know it's hard work, and I'm not suggesting that it isn't. I'm also not claiming that you shouldn't charge something, but I think you should be interested in charging the VALUE of the work that you do, and not necessarily what you CAN charge. That's all I was suggesting. But I think I'm kinda beating a dead horse, so I'll let my point go, I think I made it by now.

Iddee, I look forward to doing cut outs with you this spring. Still have my contact information? Or would you like me to call you?