Urban Rooftop beekeeping for beginner.

[guardian_10]

Hello all,

I live in Chennai, India which has a tropical climate with the average temperature ranging between 18 - 38 °C (64-100 °F) and average rainfall is about 140 cm.  The temperature sometimes can reach 42 °C (108 °F).

Right now, I am in the process of learning the basics of beekeeping online and would soon try to join a beekeeping course in my neighbourhood.  I would like to keep an apiary initially as a hobby on the rooftop of my house.  The roof is on above G+1 floor.  There are 2 major parks within 1 km radius and quite a few houses growing flowering plants/trees surrounding me.

Once I gain confidence, I would like to take it to the next step of setting up hives in my farm in the suburb which is surrounded by agricultural crops for probably a radius of more than 10 kms.

I am planning to try my hand with either Apis cerana indica (a domesticated specie native of India) or Apis mellifer (European/Italian bee). 

Given these situations, would you advice me to try my hand at beekeeping on the rooftop?  I would be providing some type of shelter from direct sun and rain.  I thought that if someone in France, New York etc could raise bees on rooftop, why not me too.  But, the only difference is that the weather does not goes to freezing temperature here.  Since, I am starting off as a hobby, should I try to set up a top bar hive or go ahead and buy a Langstroth hive?

I have read that bees can fly up to 6 miles in search of nectar, but I also read that bees will desert the hive if food is hard to find.  Given these 2 views, I would like to know what are the chances of the bees deserting my rooftop hive?

Sorry for the long post and thank you.

[BlevinsBees]

I have 10 hives on my 4 story rooftop across the street from Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. In my experience, beginning on a rooftop is a good way to go. I don't have ants, skunks and other critters bothering the hives and you have a private environment in which to learn. If you're near two parks, your bees will have no problem foraging. The weather sounds good for bees.

Make sure you build a good hive stand that spreads the load out over your roof with adequate drainage. Place your hive stand over load bearing walls. Protection from rain and wind are important as bees will abscond if it's too adverse to their foraging capabilities.

[Finski]

.
Efficient flying distance is only one mile. Good pastures must be inside this radius if you want to get honey.

[Michael Bush]

>I am planning to try my hand with either Apis cerana indica (a domesticated specie native of India) or Apis mellifer (European/Italian bee).

My only experience is with mellifera.

>Given these situations, would you advice me to try my hand at beekeeping on the rooftop?

Yes.

>  I would be providing some type of shelter from direct sun and rain.

Rain isn't an issue, but the sun on a hot day on a roof is.

>  I thought that if someone in France, New York etc could raise bees on rooftop, why not me too. 

Of course.

>But, the only difference is that the weather does not goes to freezing temperature here.  Since, I am starting off as a hobby, should I try to set up a top bar hive or go ahead and buy a Langstroth hive?

That depends on your goals and your finances.  If you can scrounge the wood and build a couple of Top Bar Hives for free, that's hard to resist.

>I have read that bees can fly up to 6 miles in search of nectar, but I also read that bees will desert the hive if food is hard to find.

What they CAN do in a pinch and what they typically do are two different things.  They are most efficient for the first 3/4 mile or so.  Almost any forager when removed from the hive, marked and released will find it's way back directly from 1 1/2 miles away.  Almost none of them will find their way back from further, which would indicate that they seldom go beyond 1 1/2 miles unless there is a dearth.

> Given these 2 views, I would like to know what are the chances of the bees deserting my rooftop hive?

I don't know anything about Inidca, but mellifera will stay put usually once they have settled in and have brood.

[guardian_10]

Thank you all for the informative and encouraging replies. After I posted this query and with much difficulty, I managed to find a local beekeeper here. I had a telephonic conversation with him and he is discouraging me from keeping Italian bee (Apis mellifera) saying that they need a constant supply of flowers over a vast area and what is available in my area would not be enough. He wants me to raise Asian bee (Apis cerana indica).

The only reason he mentioned over the phone was that a colony of Italian bee was too costly for me to loose. Just for price comparison, how much does a package of bee cost? Also, how much only for the queen? Here, from what he mentioned, a package of Italian bees would cost roughly $300 (Ouch!!!! Too much for a hobby). I have made a few enquiries around and would know soon if that's the price or more or less.  So, I'd rather start with a cheap specie and then go for the Italian as I progress.

Anyway, he invited me to his house where he has his apiary on Sunday. Really excited to get to handle bees for the first time. I'm going to blast him with tons of questions.

BTW, what species are people raising, who are keeping bee colonies in urban jungles on the rooftops.

[Finski]

.
I visited couple years ago in Malaysia. They have not beekeepers there. I read that in Singapore they have none.

I driver with rented car here and there along noert east cost line.

I saw in Kualalumbur and in country side small Asian bees. That small is Malaysian sub specie.
Even I had opportunity to destroy guite big hive which hanged in open air under a family house. The hive was empty of honey. The house owner wanted the honey to himself, but there was nothing to give.

It was April. Climate is such that morning dew lasts very long on vegetation. After midday there exist rain shovers. Dry weather period is  not many hours.r. Trees may have much flowers but the distance between flowering trees may be half kilometre or kilometre.  the nectar must be very mild and high water percent makes it impossible to carry long distances. There are everywhere compentetive pollinators like huge black bumblebees.
There were lots of many kind of bees in the morning in coconut palms to forage pollen. Coconut seems to bloom continuously.
e
mountai areas are very misty. I visited near Kualalumbur in a casino mountain. Clouds sailed between buildings. It means a high humidity the whole day.

A schoolboy showed to me places and he told that there in the village giant bees which make a huge comb under three tree branches. But just now they have migrated away.

[boca]

a package of Italian bees would cost roughly $300 (Ouch!!!! Too much for a hobby).

If I'm correct A. cerana and A. mellifera are quite close to each other. They can successfully raise each other's brood and can live together in the same hive. However they speak different languages: their waggle dances encode the distance differently.

I would start with A. cerana. When they build up I'd buy a mated A. mellifera queen. I'd introduce her into a mini-mini baby nuc of freshly emerged A. cerana. When they feel as a small family, I'd shake a few more bees at the entrance repeatedly.

Slowly the new mellifera workers would emerge and the old cerana workers would die out.

At the cost of a queen you would have a new European colony.

[BlevinsBees]

I have mostly feral bees from swarms, 4 Italian hives and two carnie hives. An Italian 3 pound package in California cost $60.00. Queens run between $20.00 and $40.00.

[guardian_10]

Ok, I got the opportunity to visit this guy and guess I will have to unwind a bit of what I have learned online regarding beekeeping. Most of what I have learned so far is based on commercial beekeeping of a. millifera using langstroth or top-bar hive. This guy has all the equipments required for beekeeping - hive tool, smoker, veil, etc. But, the only tool he used ever was his bare hand. No veil, no smoker, nothing. He just simply broke off a bit of comb and asked me to taste it then and there. The honey was a bit sour and he mentioned that it was because there were lots of tamarind trees around his place. His bees were a. cerana indica. As for the hive, it was either a Newton hive or a Marthandam hive (What!!! never heard of them before?). These are hives used by locals here for organic beekeeping. All the big fellows use langstroth et all.

This guy has both a. millifera and a. cerana. But, seriously I could not differentiate between the two. Both looked about the same size to me.
I got to handle the frame - no smoker, no veil. Would you believe he was wearing dark clothes too. I went there clothed in light colors and expected him to be wearing same too.

Finally, I pleaded with him to let me get stung once. No alergies, not very painful. But, he warned that a sting from a angry bee would be more forceful and painful than this sting.

Now for the sad bit. I would have to travel over 800kms / 500miles south to purchase my first colony. No, they won't courier or ship it. No-one here does that and they all think I've lost my nuts for asking if they would ship it. Wish I was in US or Europe only for this.

[BlevinsBees]

You maybe able to use a swarm lure to attract a swarm. You could also find out who in your area responds to
swarm calls or bee rescues in structures and get a colony that way.

[guardian_10]

Here's what I'll try to do. I'll wait and buy a colony from this guy when he has one available and also ask him for some extra used combs he might have. Then, the next hard part is finding citronella oil and lemongrass oil. Everyone talks about India as an major exporter of software, but it's still in the dark ages when it comes to online shopping. Trying to find and buy some items is still a major problem here. Once, I can find these items, I'll try to set up a swarm lure and hope I get my 2nd colony free.  Also, since there are not many beekeepers in Chennai, I don't know who is involved in bee rescues.

My worries about species arose only after I met this guy. Before that, I thought that beekeeping means compulsorily wearing a veil and having a smoker ready. But, a. cerana seems very docile. So, I don't want to spend more on equipments now initially. I am just starting off as a hobby for now. If I were to simply lure some bees and don't know about the species, I'm worried it might be a more aggressive one which stings. Call me stingy (pun unintended  :-D) if you want.

[BlevinsBees]

Don't think for a minute that even the calmest, most gentle bees will always be that way. Bees have bad days too despite the breed. There was a woman here in California several years back who was stung to death by one of her "more gentle" hives. She didn't believe in wearing a suit or veil.

[guardian_10]

 :shock:  Now, I will have to rethink my strategies.  I will have to buy at least a veil.  Or is there anything else I need to consider as absolute necessity? 

[BlevinsBees]

You should have the following to start:

1. A hive tool. If you cant obtain one in India you could use a "Pinch Bar" which is just a very small version of a crowbar but it has a flat end to pry your boxes and frames apart.

2. Smoker. You will need this as you never know the mentality of your hive until you open it.

3. Gloves are nice for a beginner. Until you learn to smoothly handle your hive, bees will sting your hands as you fumble though an inspection. Buy tight fitting gloves that allows maximum dexterity. Dish-washing gloves work really well and they're cheap.

4. A vale is highly recommended. If you get stung in the eye, you will most likely loose your eye. An alternative is a cheap mosquito vale (about $5.00) you place over a hat to keep it from clinging to your face. Make sure it has a bottom draw string to fit tightly around the bottom of your neck so bees can't fly inside. This will at least keep your eyes safe but they can sting through the vale where ever it's laying on your skin so a "Safari" type hat with a 360 brim is best to wear with the netting. Wear a white long sleeve shirt with your vale.

[CapnChkn]

If you stitch a loose cloth around the base of that mosquito net, make arm holes in the right place, you can tuck the loose end in your pants, put a shirt on over it and they will not be able to sting your face.  I find they're more interested in getting to your breath than looking for a place to sting.

I use old socks over the rubber gloves with the fingers pushed through holes.  Contrary to the above statement, they will find a crevice if one exists.

If you can find someone to work some steel, you would want to get a tool that looks like one of these:


My favorite is the one with the odd looking finger at the end of what kind of looks like a tiny axe.  It's called a "J-hook" hive tool.  I never used the first, yellow, "Italian" style, and the dime store kind, the other two, I find to worthless for anything.  The one end will be almost as sharp as a knife, because the bees don't just move in to a cavity, they remodel.  With glue.  On everything.

You will need to pry the boxes apart, pry the frames out (what the hook is for), scrape stuff off, etc.

[the-ecohouse.com]

Thank you all for the informative and encouraging replies. After I posted this query and with much difficulty, I managed to find a local beekeeper here. I had a telephonic conversation with him and he is discouraging me from keeping Italian bee (Apis mellifera) saying that they need a constant supply of flowers over a vast area and what is available in my area would not be enough. He wants me to raise Asian bee (Apis cerana indica).

The only reason he mentioned over the phone was that a colony of Italian bee was too costly for me to loose. Just for price comparison, how much does a package of bee cost? Also, how much only for the queen? Here, from what he mentioned, a package of Italian bees would cost roughly $300 (Ouch!!!! Too much for a hobby). I have made a few enquiries around and would know soon if that's the price or more or less.  So, I'd rather start with a cheap specie and then go for the Italian as I progress.

Anyway, he invited me to his house where he has his apiary on Sunday. Really excited to get to handle bees for the first time. I'm going to blast him with tons of questions.

BTW, what species are people raising, who are keeping bee colonies in urban jungles on the rooftops.

'


Build a swarm box and put it on your roof, dose it with lemongrass oil and you might just get a free swarm.