Medical benefits

[JackM]

Ok been reading the thread about stings and how many folks say it cured circulation or pain issues.

Being a person that lives in varying degrees of pain on an every day basis, I am very interested in how I might be able to benefit from getting stung.  I do understand that you may build up a tolerance and not get swelling or you could go into anaphalytic shock.  (Medically oriented careers and family)

Anyhow, I have noticed many statements of joint pain, sounds arthritic in nature, that improves or in some cases cures with bee stings.  Well I have not only arthritis, but fibromyalgia and vascular disease. 

I sure could use some factual information, studies, etc., to educate myself more before I go and start getting stings.    I am starting to gather that the first few stings get the greatest reaction and then not as bad as time goes on.....sounds like the allergy shots I took one time.

Anyhow, I am most interested in bee stings and fibromyalgia and in particular relief of that disease process with stings.  Anyone? 

Currently I am taking a medication on an experimental basis (doc said to) which has a bunch of icky side effects, like cotton mouth, add in two more meds that make the mouth taste like folks been dancing there, and it is almost constant breath freshening.  ICK  I would rather have stings....I think, never been stung by a bee, just wasps.

[Robo]

Jack,

Wildlife Pro Network did a podcast on bee acupuncture with Dr.Amber Rose back in 2010.   You may want to listen to the podcast as I'm pretty sure we discussed fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and many other issues.

Details of the podcast and audio can be found here -> http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/bee-acupunture-with-dr-amber-rose/

[splitrock]

Jack

I know of one local lady who was stinging herself regularly and quite a few at a time claiming it gave her much relief from her MS, or was it MD, anyway, whatever it was, she bought her own bees to give herself the stings she felt she needed.

The drug scene is a downward spiral. One drug leads to another, I am sure you know the old saying, and it sounds like you are finding out first hand.

Turns out it is true, and the biggest pusher (imho) is often, well, you know who.........

My wife is a traditional naturalpath,  and many of her clients are nurses that want to avoid their own system. ...They see the results.

Get into a search engine, and hunt for alternatives for what ails you, you may find something as simple as a bee sting or eating a bowl of cherries, or taking a teaspoon of honey that can really help, with NO negative side effects. And if you really want to get an education, just google recalled prescription drugs in the last five years. You'll be wondering how long before the ones you are on make the long list.

[caticind]

JackM,

There are plenty of anecdotal reports of fibromyalgia symptoms being reduced by bee stings, but no medical-grade clinical studies.  Similar claims for venom as a treatment have been made for everything from hay fever to leukemia, so take with salt.  

As you probably already know from your own research, there are a lot of "treatments" out there for fibromyalgia with this kind of anecdotal support, some plausible, some wild, some snake oil, everything from organic diets to acupuncture to chelation to aromatherapy.  With so little medical understanding about the cause and with those drugs which are effective causing a lot of side effects, there's a knowledge vacuum around cure and treatment that everyone is eager to fill.  Bee venom therapy has been found to be safe by reputable trials (except for people who are allergic, of course), so if it does not work for you it will at least do you no harm.

I remember you're getting started with bees this coming spring, is that right?  Have you ever been stung before?

The very first step to take if you are interested in trying venom therapy is to get yourself tested for allergy to honey bee venom.  In addition to the potential for a serious reaction the first time you are stung, there is also the possibility of developing a severe reaction later, EVEN IF the first sting does not produce unusual symptoms.  Getting stung regularly as part of apitherapy can improve your tolerance, but it can also escalate a latent allergy that was not triggered by occasional accidental stings.  Please don't start a course of stings until you've tested negative!

[JackM]

Don't plan on just jumping into getting stung. 

Actually it is darn near impossible for someone to have a serious reaction on the first exposure unless somehow they already have the anitbodies.  Beyond that is when it can be spooky.  (Been through all the allergy shot stuff, understand the medicine behind what causes a severe reaction.)  We keep epi pen at home, I am ex paramedic, wife is nurse.  We know what to look for.  I keep forgetting to ask doc to test me, but I will.

Yes, much of the snake oil remedies are risky.  Part of all of it is believing in the 'cure'.  At this point I am willing to try anything at least on a trial.  Right now doc has me trying massive doses of guaifensen, which is mucinex, an expectorant.  Too soon to be sure, but it may be helping.  But whenever I add a medication, I want to drop another.  Sick of putting chemicals in my body.  Sick of hurting too, enough to get risky.  LIfe ain't so fun hurting all the time.

[caticind]

Don't plan on just jumping into getting stung. 

Actually it is darn near impossible for someone to have a serious reaction on the first exposure unless somehow they already have the anitbodies.  Beyond that is when it can be spooky.  (Been through all the allergy shot stuff, understand the medicine behind what causes a severe reaction.)  We keep epi pen at home, I am ex paramedic, wife is nurse.  We know what to look for.  I keep forgetting to ask doc to test me, but I will.

Yes, much of the snake oil remedies are risky.  Part of all of it is believing in the 'cure'.  At this point I am willing to try anything at least on a trial.  Right now doc has me trying massive doses of guaifensen, which is mucinex, an expectorant.  Too soon to be sure, but it may be helping.  But whenever I add a medication, I want to drop another.  Sick of putting chemicals in my body.  Sick of hurting too, enough to get risky.  LIfe ain't so fun hurting all the time.

Glad to see you've got the medical background.  That EMT/Nursing common sense should serve well.  

Allergy amplification is quite strange. I should know, as I developed one while beekeeping and am now going through desensitization treatment.  I hear interesting stories from folks in the waiting room (its amazing just how many things people can be allergic to) and have heard of someone who thought she'd had a strong reaction with respiratory involvement on the first sting.  It turned out she'd been stung as an infant and so didn't know it.  The first sting is generally safe, but only so long as one can be sure it really is the first.

There's nothing wrong with placebo if it reduces people's pain.  The problem is when unscrupulous people use that effect to sell products that are themselves harmful.  I hope you find a solution that works for you, and keep on believing that you can be free of pain!

[Poppi]

JackM,  Do a search online for bee venom therapy or apitherapy or bee sting therapy.   There are several places to get information.  Try http://www.beevenom.com/index.htm#Wel

It's a good place to start.  Arthritis and Fibromyalgia are both mentioned but you need to read it and see if you want to bother...  I decided to start with my hands for arthritis... the osteo type...  it's only been a month and I am doing my left thumb only...  3 stings twice a week...  somedays I think it's working but other's not so much...  but it doesn't happen overnight.  The idea is the sting stimulates the adrenals to produce cortisol ( with your med background you understand this)...  that along with certain properties of the venom lowers the inflamation at the joint.  Like cortisone injections for joint pain...  I'll continue for 6 months and if it works I'll move to my shoulder.  Of course another 6 months of beekeeping and I may get enough stings accidently...  :)   I do wear a veil...  no gloves or suit... and don't normally use a smoker.

John

[JackM]

This is all very interesting.  You must understand I am also researching Fibro, as now it really is an identified process with known chemical (Krebs Cycle) indifferences, and through research yesterday, it is possible my current treatment could CURE the disease.  Well worth looking into, but there is a caveat of I will have to stop taking aspirin.  That is a huge risk as I also have cardiovascular disease and high lipids.  I am unable to take the meds for the high cholesterol as they drastically increase my pain levels.  I have to do the diet and exercise thing...with a painful body...LOL  

So we (the doctor and I) try one new suggestion at a time to see how I do.  One of the downsides is that eventually osteoarthritis takes over in the joints.  Currently I have a thumb that I am ready to amputate.   Not really, but sometimes I use it just wrong and loose grip on whatever.  Bout all I can take for pain any more is Tylenol as other stuff my body has a great distaste for narcotics.  They make me itch so bad I prefer the pain.  

So that thumb would be the place to start for me.  I am ready to go get a cortisone shot in it, even as bad as those hurt.

Thanks for the leads here, much to read and follow the information bibliography stuff.  Have an awesome day.

Oh for 24/7 pain sufferers, Acetomenophin (Tylenol) is made in a long acting version at a high dose and is available over the counter.  It will give you 650 mg of relief per pill for 12 hours instead of the 4 hour 500 mg.  There is a difference.  Costco even carries Tylenol name brand for less than most supermarkets.  Check it out.

[Poppi]

JackM...   I do pray you arrive at a cure...  I can't imagine the pain associated with fibromyalgia...  I have a friend that has it and what she goes through at times is bad.  For me, trying bee stings is no big deal because that is all I am doing...   glad you are taking the time to do the research...  good luck, John

[buzzbee]

I get temporary relief with some of my aches with bee stings it seems. If it's phsycological or real it doesn't matter. If standing on a red rubber ball and facing north two minutes a day made me feel better,I would do it.

[JackM]

If standing on a red rubber ball and facing north two minutes a day made me feel better,I would do it.

Boy I hear that!  Try anything once, twice if not sure.

[vmmartin]

Jack, If you have been hit by a wasp before, then imagine that pain cut down by at least half, maybe even a third and then you can picture what a bee sting is like.  Not all that bad really. I would suggest, if you start some sting therapy, do start with that thumb. Just don't get one of them to sting you on o in the nose.  The nose stings are by far the worst imo. Hope you find some answers and relief.

[texjim]

getting stung on the nose or eye lid does not feel good at all.

[Tommyt]

getting stung on the nose or eye lid does not feel good at all.

I nose...what your talking about :shock:
 :?

Tommyt

[Hethen57]

Also, you may want to check Beemaster's personal website.  I recall he had a blog of sorts that discussed his results with sting therapy for a joint or back injury.  I decided not to try it after I saw how many stings he was inflicting daily :shock: ...I hate getting stung and would find a tough time doing it on purpose to myself on purpose.  I did think about trying to work my bees with bare right shoulder to let them sting me on their own and see how it works, but haven't tried it yet  :-D  From the research I did, it is supposed to induce some type of cortisol response in your body, similar to a cortisone shot.

[JackM]

Yes the sadism in the whole thing sucks.  But, I did allergy shots for 3 years, gave myself the shots.  You just do it.


Time will tell, I don't have any bees yet, and I want to talk to my doctor about this before I do it.  I assume I eventually will be stung many times regardless.

Have a good day folks, this sure is a strange winter.

[GDRankin]

Time will tell, I don't have any bees yet, and I want to talk to my doctor about this before I do it.  I assume I eventually will be stung many times regardless.

I realize this is an old thread . . . just wondering what the results were for JackM or any others working with apitherapy?

[JackM]

I am allergic, must avoid stings, so I suit up.

[GDRankin]

I am allergic, must avoid stings, so I suit up.

Ahh ... sorry to hear that. Thanks for the reply & beeee safe!

[jayj200]

anecdotal does bot mean wrong or erroneous. what it does mean big pharma and doctors, AMA can not make money from these