Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: JP on February 09, 2008, 12:41:57 am
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Did a removal in an apartment complex today. The people were supposed to have their 3 pitbulls tied up but didn't. The daughter was gonna try and tie 'em up baby in hand so I stepped in, the dog's actually are quite friendly and love starved, made three buddies outta them, one in particular.
I checked this hive out a few weeks ago and was unable to determine exactly where the hive was located so I knew I was gonna have to experiment a bit. They were either gonna be in the eave, the wall, or both. The construction where the bees were was kinda subpar and there was some wood rot in the area the hive was, the rotten wood gave the bees the avenue to set up shop. They wound up being in the eave and the ceiling.
Didn't think I was gonna get the queen, seemed there were too many nooks and crannies for her to run to, but as luck would have it I got her, and she was a laying!
About midway into the removal one of the pitbulls got loose and was my constant companion for the rest of the day. Liked that honey, which was a lot. Think I pulled out about a hundred lbs. The hive filled up most of the eave and went into the ceiling a good bit. Thought I was gonna have to cut into the ceiling, but I was able to get it all out, had my arm stretched as far as it would go, up to my shoulder.
The people and their neighbors enjoyed having some fresh honey. The job took from 11am until 6:30pm. I put everthing back though, and try to do 'em in one day.
Here's some picks: (http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6123/cimg0399ck3.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0399ck3.jpg)
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8844/cimg0400lo9.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0400lo9.jpg)
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1520/cimg0402yz8.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0402yz8.jpg)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8895/cimg0405xi4.th.jpg) (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0405xi4.jpg)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4881/cimg0408vt1.th.jpg) (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0408vt1.jpg)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1194/cimg0413fv8.th.jpg) (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0413fv8.jpg)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5999/cimg0401vm4.th.jpg) (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0401vm4.jpg)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8219/cimg0411cg9.th.jpg) (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0411cg9.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5273/cimg0414bm2.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0414bm2.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/23/cimg0422ip8.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0422ip8.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8534/cimg0424on5.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0424on5.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2043/cimg0426hu2.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0426hu2.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/115/cimg0428qu8.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0428qu8.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8162/cimg0430rj6.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0430rj6.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6353/cimg0432gk1.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0432gk1.jpg)
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4201/cimg0429ml8.th.jpg) (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0429ml8.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9691/cimg0433zb7.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0433zb7.jpg)
Sincerely, JP
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Impressive...............well done. I used to do this as well; used a shop vac to remove the bees, but no matter how many different things I tried, I couln't keep the bees alive; the all sweat to death in the shop vac.
What's your technique?
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I like it.
darn nice.
So the obvious question is, did you find the queen? ;)
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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I like it.
darn nice.
So the obvious question is, did you find the queen? ;)
Sincerely,
Brendhan
Did you see the pics? Look at the last four pics before the last pic.
....JP
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yes very impressive work. Thanks for the pictures.
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Impressive...............well done. I used to do this as well; used a shop vac to remove the bees, but no matter how many different things I tried, I couln't keep the bees alive; the all sweat to death in the shop vac.
What's your technique?
Alan, when using any type of beevac you must be aware not to use a vac that has too much suction as it will harm the bees, you don't want to overfill the area where the vac contains the bees, such as the inner box, or the bees will suffocate, this is particularly true on a really warm day. I have two types that have inner boxes, and I have extra boxes with each set up. Of utmost importance is too make sure the bees get proper ventilation and not to keep them contained in the inner box for too long without feed or something to drink cause they will overheat, starve or both.
On the one I have posted here I didn't use the vac much at all, and I try to use them sparingly, but I don't perform removals without having one handy.
Btw, modified this post this morning. Check out the second to last pic, you can see her good, she's on the right.
Sincerely, JP
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Did you take the dog?
For my Rotty I always have to remind him with"Sick im', NOT Lick im'!"
Just recently my wife came home to see Tank up in the UPS truck with the driver, licking his legs!!. The UPS driver didnt mind, he said...He said that the big dogs werent problems most the time as it was the little dogs who snapped and bit!
My dods are kinda leary about eating honey. I think they got that way cuzza being stung when smelling honey in the hive/.
your friend,
john
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John, even if the people offered me the dog, I couldn't take him cause I have three dogs of my own, that don't like other dogs. My dogs love, love, love honey!
....JP
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I am sure some of the stuff around here has been making the national news. Seems we have mean Pitt Bulls around here. In just three days I think it was a mail person was attacked. A small horse was killed and another injured. Then I think it was goats were attacked. These were all different dogs in different places. The headline actually read, "another day, Another Pitt bull attack". Then yesterday another small horse was attacked by an unidentified breed of dog.
An Ex-brother-in-law raised Pitt bulls. They were friendly around people but they sure hated other dogs. Had to use big logging chains to keep them apart. When they did get together you just about had to drown them to get them apart. They would clamp down and not let go. And they liked the rough stuff. The rougher you were the more they liked it. They enjoyed a good beating.
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[quote author=Jerrymac > They would clamp down and not let go. And they liked the rough stuff. The rougher you were the more they liked it. They enjoyed a good beating.
Sounds like one of my ex-girlfriends! Just kidding! Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa!
.....JP
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JP, I am ever so grateful that you figured out how to use the image hosting program here. You have brought some beautiful and wonderful pictures. I saw the queen in the pictures, picked her out right away!!! Yeah!!!! I never tire of looking at the way that bees build that natural comb in the spaces that they cram into!!! Amazing little girls and boys that are privy to get into their lives. We are addicted....
John, again, your little bit about your dogs make me laugh, that wheezy, squeaky little laugh, so no one can hear me, hee, hee. Reminding your rotty to sick 'em, not lick 'em. Dogs sure do love to lick faces eh? That makes me laugh too, and then they want to lick the face even harder, they and get away from a face lickin' pittbull, good luck with that one.
We have two pittbulls here, my Daughter's and Grandson's but they might have well be mine, hee, hee, they love Grandma's house too.
JP, are you sure that those pitties didn't eat that woman's baby in her arms. Pitties have such a bad rap, and some certainly do and deserve, like the ones that Jerry were talking about. It is how they are raised, no a single doubt in my mind, maybe now and then there may be genetics, true too.
JP, shame on you, you poor ol' ex-girlfriends, :shock: :roll: ;) :) Have a wonderful and beautiful day, this is a great life to live. Cindi
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This whole cut out looked so peaceful to me. You are definitely an expert with this stuff. Thanks for sharing those beautiful photos and I saw the queen right away also.
Sincerely
Annette
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This whole cut out looked so peaceful to me. You are definitely an expert with this stuff. Thanks for sharing those beautiful photos and I saw the queen right away also.
Sincerely
Annette
Annette, peaceful is probably not a term I would use to describe cut-outs, more like controlled chaos, lol. Now swarm clusters are peaceful and awe inspiring, very fascinating to look at and house.
Annette, how's things with the carpal tunnel situation?
....JP
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OK, thanks for setting me straight.
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One more thing I would like to add, actually two things. First: The closer I got to the comb that had the queen, the calmer the bees were. M.B. mentions this on his site, but this is the first time I actually could sense I was getting closer to her, because with each brood comb I removed, the bees were getting calmer, not that this hive was that aggressive in the first place. If I had to guess, the queen was probably on those calmer combs before I got the one she was on, because they like to stay ahead of you when you're removing combs, so her scent was still on the previous comb I am sure, but still, it was interesting to actually "see" this. I actually had a real sense of confidence that I would soon find her, once I got into these particular comb sections. This was unusual to see this so I feel it is worth noting and its something I will look for in the future. I wound up with 8 full frames of brood comb and a approx 100 lbs of honey.
Second thing: I want ya'll to look carefully at the last four pics before the last pic. These pics depict the queen. People are always asking how do you spot the queen? One of the things that you look for you will see in these pics. Notice how there are several bees in each pic forming a circle facing the queen. This is a give away, try and notice this for those of you who have trouble sometimes spotting her.
Sincerely, JP
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JP,
That was awesome, thank you so much for the pics. One of these days I will have my own cutout pics to post.
F
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JP,
That was awesome, thank you so much for the pics. One of these days I will have my own cutout pics to post.
F
I know you will Frantz! Can't wait to see 'em!
....JP
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YAYS! I found her!! This is a beeks "wheres Waldo"!! Thank you for posting the pics & giving clues, I can see now how the wings & thorax are different, her stripes are different too! The bees do face her, I learn so much from reading all the posts..many of my questions are answered before I ask!
Jody
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Hey Jody this is a wonderful forum isn't it? Wanted to also point out that a lot of the feral queens abdomens that I run across are generally a solid golden color with no rings visible, this girl just happens to have visible rings. And sometimes on rare ocassions, her abdomen is black, which makes her that much harder to find, particularly when you're acustomed to finding queens with golden abdomens.
....JP
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JP, wow what beautiful photos! I am always in awe of what the bees do all on their own...I wonder how long those bees had been there. Just amazing.
When you get the bees home, what and how do you place them in a hive? Do you rubber band the brood comb into a foundation? What exactly do you do?
Thanks from Sunny California ( finally )!
Shar
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Day Valley, sorry I didn't have any pics of the deep I used on site to transfer the brood to, I will post some pics of my last removal before this one, so you can see the set up. To answer your question, yes, I rubber band the combs to the wooden frames. Btw, the pics of the queen I have posted here were pics I took of her after the comb she was on was secured in the frame.
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4595/cimg0323ph9.th.jpg) (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0323ph9.jpg)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1530/cimg0335qs1.th.jpg) (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0335qs1.jpg)
....JP
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Awesome JP..just awesome!
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I do see the queen in those last pictures.
That makes for a wondeful cut out.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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I do see the queen in those last pictures.
That makes for a wondeful cut out.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
The queen is certainly the cherry on top. I didn't think I would find her on this one but lady luck was smiling on me.
Got any interesting ones coming up?
....JP
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I am stuck in Dallas, TX for the next week and a half and then I have the beekeeping course.
I have told everyone no cut outs till March. I am however now having apprentices join me as a training exercise on my next few cut outs.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Brendhan, good luck with the course. Got a chance to talk with the fatbeeman tonite, extremely knowledgeable guy, learned some stuff tonite.
....JP
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I am sorry I missed the chat. I had to do a PBC Beekeepers booth at the Everglades family day event and then drive down to Miami to finish some work. Now I am getting packed so I can go to Dallas, TX tomorrow.
The last couple of chats I was on with Don have been great.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Hope you don't burn out dude, you gotta have a vacation coming to you soon right? You probably wouldn't fly anywhere right?
....JP
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I took two weeks and flew to Tasmania. :-D
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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For real! Did you get a chance to see any Tasmanian devils? I bet they're kinda rare though, think they're pretty cool.
.....JP
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Hey Jody this is a wonderful forum isn't it? Wanted to also point out that a lot of the feral queens abdomens that I run across are generally a solid golden color with no rings visible, this girl just happens to have visible rings. And sometimes on rare ocassions, her abdomen is black, which makes her that much harder to find, particularly when you're acustomed to finding queens with golden abdomens.
....JP
All the Italian queens I remember seeing was ringed like the one in your cut out. It was the bee breeders who developed them all gold.
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> All the Italian queens I remember seeing was ringed like the one in your cut out. It was the bee breeders who developed them all gold.
[/quote]
Hey Brian I have always suspected that a lot of the hives I come across were ones that swarmed out of various outyards and set up shop, so your point seems most vaild. I will now be on the lookout for the non-ringed vs ringed. Btw, I checked out your blog last nite, well done! If I may speak for others on the site here, we appreciate having you, you are a real asset, there's lots of usable information in your posts. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
Sincerely, JP
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My dog Buck, an American Bulldog, same ancestors as the Pit, AmStaff, English Bull, etc used to always hang with me when I worked around the yard. Would put him in the kennel when I actually worked the hives. As I would sometimes be around the hives, so would Buck, until one day he stuck his nose up to an entrance to get a whiff of what was buzzing in there. Poor guy, he stays away from hives now days, won't go near them at all. He got hit about a dozen times. Guess the girls didn't appreciate that big wet nose that close to their honey.
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Hey Gunny, is that a pic of him as your avatar? It doesn't take much for the dogs to learn not to go around the hives, a few stings will do it for sure.
....JP
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I didn't see any in the wild. There is an oral cancer that is hurting the wild Tasmanian Devil population. However we did go by a tassie devil conservatory.
(http://www.brendhanhorne.com/coppermine_dir/albums/tassie_110607/thumb_s2010040.jpg) (http://"www.brendhanhorne.com/coppermine_dir/displayimage.php?album=118&pos=38")
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Brendhan What was it like to see them up close. On television they are very vocal with one another, did you experience the horrific vocalizations they are capable of? How big were they?
....JP
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Brendhan What was it like to see them up close. On television they are very vocal with one another, did you experience the horrific vocalizations they are capable of? How big were they?
....JP
They can be quite vocal but I didn't find it horrible. They are about the size of a small to medium dog. They have possum tails. Which isn't surprising considering that is what they basically are is a possum that decided to stick with the meat eating.
They look very nice at the conservatory but I wouldn't want one as a pet. :)
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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They don't have prehensile tails do they?
...JP
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No, they can't hang buy them. :)
It has the same color and textural apperance.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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As I understand it they have an odor that makes a Skunk smell friendly.
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Sweet little Tasmanian devils: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6QQBgS-t2M&feature=related
.....JP
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Amazing pics! I can't wait to get my own bees and someday get the opportunity to do this myself. So fun to see all the bees and their natural comb. 100lbs of honey; nice find.
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Hey Gunny, is that a pic of him as your avatar? It doesn't take much for the dogs to learn not to go around the hives, a few stings will do it for sure.
....JP
Yes, that is my buddy Buck
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Hey Gunny, I like your taste in dog names!
I had a rotty named Buck!
I named him after the dog in "Call of the Wild".
I had a Dalmation named Annie once too!..Can ya guess?..."Where the Red Fern Grows"!
Before We got Tank(our rotty we have now) I was looking at American Bulldogs..They were too pricey for me(1500$) at that time..I suppose that if we were only going to have 1 dog it would've been ok though. We live in an area where city people throw their dogs out of their trucks and cars when they get tired of them. I have no use for those people. It makes me feel terrible to take the dogs to the humane society,but I cant keep them all. I have 5 dogs now, 3 are original ones I brought home and one moved to my house from a neighbors house and stayed and one came from a girl at work who we watched her dog when she went TDY..She was gone so much I told her to just leave Loki with me.
It seems that the people in this forum are "Animal People" for sure!
I always thought that if a person likes dogs, they gotta be good people!
Uh ohh...gotta go.....Those dang collies have another stinky dead rabbit they snuck in the house!!!
just kiddin'!
your friend,
john
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Oh My! Those devils are sooo cute. They don't sound all that bad..our kids fighting sound & look worse! I would love to go to tasmania, Australia & New Zeland while young enough to poke things & run! I too get upset with the "throw away" society..Sometimes circumstances happen where you can't keep your pets but when you take the responsibility it should be for the life of the animal! :-xhmmph! My horse is around 34..onery as ever! She still scampers when she sees her boyfriend..a younger morgan/thoro. She does that Morgan trot she won't do for me, tail & head held high...then when he is out of sight she shuffles up to the barn huffing & puffing!
Jody
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57jFF-pk_GA Say a prayer for the devils.
....JP
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Fantastic pics JP!
I've got my first cut out scheduled.
I am hoping this going to be a good learning experience for me. Its an industrial site rather than someone's home. Nice and open and a single panel uninsulated wall with a poured concrete wall behind it.
My question is...
Timing.
I know when the "heavy" swarm season is locally, but when should I perform a cut-out? The building is a wheat gluten warehouse so the bees have built their colony right into a brood rearing superstore.
Could the simply explode with population as it gets warmer or am I exaggerating the effects such a convenient source of protein would provide?
Michael, Robo, anyone else that wants to chime in, feel free.
The wear on the outer paneling (bottom and top) suggests that the colony could be stretching as high as 16 feet. Any idea what I should take with me in terms of boxes and frames to capture what I can? I have about 2 dozen empty frames put aside for this and other projects, I just built a bee vac, and with the farm, tools for contract type work are not an issue at all. I'll even have a small generator with me if power is an issue.
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The wear on the outer paneling (bottom and top) suggests that the colony could be stretching as high as 16 feet. Any idea what I should take with me in terms of boxes and frames to capture what I can? I have about 2 dozen empty frames put aside for this and other projects, I just built a bee vac, and with the farm, tools for contract type work are not an issue at all. I'll even have a small generator with me if power is an issue.
I'm not sure what you mean by the wear on the outside paneling. The bees usually go to the highest point possible from any point of entry and build down. I say usually because I had one that actually started at the bottom and built up. That was a surprise. I usually take a couple of deeps and frames to fill them. Any brood comb gets rubber banded into the frames. Something to close up the top and bottom of the two deeps and allow ventilation.
Duct tape. Don't forget the duct tape.
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Not sure if I got this right but it sounds like you have a void space between an outer concrete wall and an inner paneling wall, is this correct? If so, in regards to when to do it, do it when the night temps don't get down below 45-50f . If the bees are entering the wall they will generally start building at the highest point like the top plate and build downwards, like Jerry said. Sounds like one you will enjoy and easy access too! Easy access and a vertical hive, a beereomover's dream come true! 16', I don't think so, but size it up, and bring a couple of boxes with you. Seal any opening that the queen can get into and disappear into, like any holes in the vertical studs or top plate. Smoke lightly and go in. Gently remove the paneling and expose the hive. If you can get the honey combs out of the way, do that first, but whatever works. Try not to spill any honey on the broodcombs. If the bees are really gentle. try and do the entire process without using the vac. If you have great numbers you just may have to vac them to see what you're doing. Make sure they have proper ventilation, and don't overcrowd the inner boxes. Take your time and get that queen, don't be in a rush. Do the secure the brood comb with rubber bands thing and give them some honeycomb and comb with honey and beebread for the young bees. Have lots of fun and you better take pictures or we won't believe anything you say now, or in the future, just kidding. We're here if you need us. (http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5027/dscn2144nh8.th.jpg) (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn2144nh8.jpg)
Sincerely, JP
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Actually, its a concrete, poured wall on the inside (to pile the gluten against and use as a back stop for the loader.
THe paneling is on the outside.
When I say stain or wear I mean the "travel" stain you see from bees on bare or stained wood that shows where the entrance is.
There is a bottom entrance and then an upper one at least 12' up that ruuns where the paneling pulled off from the stud a bit. Call it a 1' to 18" vertical entrance.
The lower entrance has dead bees around it, some of them appeared to more fresh than others which would be the norm I would think though not tons of them.
The pant manager claims there are more colonies but I walked around the whole building and only saw this one location.
Could be a bust or a gold mine of fun.
And yes, I will most definitely take pictures. I ALWAYS take pictures. I'll also have a video camera running the entire time on a tripod. SO I can see how badly I mess things up or how well I did. :-D
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Wonder if you might have two hives there. I don't know, just a thought, or one huge one.
....JP
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If there are screws or something halfway up the panel where it might be secured to another cross tie..... I don't know what they are called.... then there very well could be two colonies.
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Finally got over there last weekend when it was up in the 60s briefly.
These pics were taken at 5PM in the shade.
The first one is seems to be the most active and at one end of the building.
(http://gallery.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/100046/IMG_2850/web.jpg)
The entrance is low, almost on the ground between the boards on the brace. Not travel stains or wear on the second 8' panel above along seam. There are at least four locations along the side of this building, which is over 150' long.
Here they are outside of the entrance.
(http://gallery.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/100046/IMG_2859/web.jpg)
This is the second location. Less traffic. I did not get a close up since my battery died.
(http://gallery.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/100046/IMG_2861/web.jpg)
I'll post more as I go...hopefully with good news, but we are looking at sub-20 temps again aith up to 5" of ice and snow.
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Richard, some intriguing pictures you got going on there. You're gonna have some fun for sure. Beautiful and wonderful day in this life. CIndi
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CHF
here is the list that understudy gave me/us.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=7603.msg48228#msg48228
we added paint scraper, tarp (or two), baby wipes, make sure you have a BIG container for the extra comb and honey comb, hive staples or electrical staples, hammer, something to close up the hive like newspaper and duct tape or some screen.
if the hive is that big, or if there are multiple hives, you probably will need more than 10 frames and maybe more than 2 boxes.
that's all i can think of off the top of my head......
i'm doing one next weekend, weather permitting. they guys said it would be easy :-P
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I think I have most the tools I need. I'll detail the list in a bit.
What kind of knives do you all use to cut apart the comb on sight? serrated?
I have a bunch of empty frames that I was going to experiment in foundationless with and rubber bands and I just ordered ten catch frames from WVBeekeepr (simply not enough time in the day to build some...I haven't finished my nuc transfer ventilated tops and bottoms yet...I'll post pics on those too).
Built my bee vac though back in January(not planning on using it much on this one)(guess I should post pics of that as well). I used clear rubbermaid containers in the design.
Fun, fun, fun...
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The one end of my hive tool is sharp enough to use to cut the comb.
(http://www.betterbee.com/images/stdhivetool.jpg)
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I love the pics of the open comb you post. Some of the designs they build comb in is an art form in itself