Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: farmerjohn on April 16, 2011, 12:47:03 am
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Last weekend I managed to capture a swarm(not from my hive). I captured the swarm towards the end of the day. I posted here and wanted to know if I should keep the hive sealed. Well the recommendation was to unseal the hive and let them come and go. The next day about half of the bees were gone. The remaining bees were busy building comb and consuming sugar. I found a sealed queen cell in one of my hives and put that in that swarm hive. I am hoping the queen will hatch and the swarm hive will accept her, won't know until this weekend sometime when I can peek into that swarm hive. Okay, so today I captured another swarm(not from my hive) I went ahead and put a small piece of the plastic queen excluder on the entrance in hopes that it would encourage the queen to stick around today. Should I leave that on or what. Seems swarm queens just take off when I open up the entrance area. Any ideas?
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Some stay, some go. That's the fun of beekeeping. I never restrict a queen more than 24 hours. If she wants to go, I let her.
PS. I have found that more of them stay if I move the swarm a few miles away from where they are caught. I guess it keeps the scouts from leading them to their new digs, but that's only a guess.
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I would remove the queen excluder but would find would queen first and put her in a queen catcher. Position the queen catcher inside the hive between 2 frames with a rubber band. Leave her in the queen catcher between 24-48 hours. The bees will not abscond without the queen and with her secured in the queen catcher, it will give the bees more time to get used to their new home. Don't leave her in the catcher too long in case she is a virgin queen. The queen excluder will also restrict the movement of the drones. The drones will need to exit the hive in order to make a cleansing flight and to also mate with the queen if in fact she is a virgin.
Good Luck!
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find queen first and put her in a queen catcher
24 -48 I agree
Feed and have fun
:cheer:
good luck
Tommyt
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In response to dean0's post I just have an idea to share. If swarm has been put in a hive with drawn comb, you could fashion a screen cage with her and some bees inside on say half of the face of one side of a frame. In say three days or so you should be able to find eggs and know she is mated. Once they are raising brood you should also be good to go.
Just a two cent thought. Maybe a nickel!
Now that i think of it this may have been suggested last season. I got day-ja-vo.
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Could be many reasons the swarms do not like your hives. If you dump bees in a box, they will go through the same process of deciding to stay or not. A frame of honey and brood help, as well as moving them as iddee has stated. So if by chance you boxed them right before they were going to leave anyways, they now lost their new selected location.
10 things to consider for swarm trap success
Honey Bees…..
* prefer a swarm trap (colony location) about 8 to 15 feet off the ground.
* will disregard a trap with light coming in from above.
* prefer a trap equivalent to a cavity size slightly larger than a deep brood
box.
* will select sites in the afternoon shade. They may abandon a site within a
few days if in full sun and heat is an issue.
* prefer bait hives with entrances facing south.
* prefer a entrance towards the bottom of the cavity.
* prefer a unobstructed flight path from the entrance.
* will not take up residence in a bait hive that has other insects in them.
Keep them free of wasps, yellow jackets, etc.
* prefer a bait hive that is dry.
* prefer a previously used site that has a honey bee smell of old comb, or
one that has baited with bee scent.
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The queen excluder will also restrict the movement of the drones. The drones will need to exit the hive in order to make a cleansing flight and to also mate with the queen if in fact she is a virgin.
I agree that an excluder (or in this case an includer) is not a good idea. But generally the drones are not mating with their sister, the virgin queen from the same hive. Such inbreeding is bad for the colony and the queen avoids this by flying further from the hive on her mating flights while the drones mate closer to home.
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I also recently caught a swarm with their queen. I tried the queen excluder and she was able to shimmy past it, because the queens often slim down so they can fly when swarming. I was lucky enough to find them all on the side of the hive and with some cool 1:1 syrup spray I was able to get them into a new hive. I sprayed all the foundation with the same syrup and I locked them in for 24 hours. I have screen bottom board on the hive so they were able to get plenty of ventilation. After 24 hours I removed the screen and didnt bother with the excluder. A few hours later I noticed foragers coming in with loads of pollen so I figured it was a go. Checked them few days later and all is looking GREAT. They are drawing out foundation like mad. Now when I locked them in I did get them some feed, 1:1 syrup and small amount of a pollen sub, Im not sure if that helped them decide to stay but what the heck. Good luck
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I prefer to cage them for no more than two days and offer feed. A hive that has housed bees before is a bonus to getting them to stay. Drawn frames is a bonus, brood is an even bigger bonus.
I have a friend who swears that they pick a spot where they get morning shade but I have nothing to back that up with. He has been removing/keeping bees for over twenty five years.
As for the size of the box you put them in, I'd say it has a lot to do with the size of the swarm. This year most are running smaller than normal in the one & a half two to two lb range. That size goes right into a deep or medium nuc and stays no problem.
...JP
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I have had the best of luck keeping a swarm by giving them a frame of brood.
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If a good size swarm takes a box then half leave, it could be there were two "2" Queens.
If that is the case you are flapping in the wind to try to give them a Queen cell or another Queen.
Most times all I do is feed them, the swarm that came in today will get nothing Till next Sat.
I'll give them time to settle in then see whats going on and see how viscous they are. My tulip poplar are in full bloom so they are not hurting.
When they swarm in the wild who feeds them? who puts a Queen cell in???
I think that plays a big role in the trouble we are having with bees today. We try to live too much for them.
I am not saying put them in a box and walk away. :)don2
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I am still wondering about the half that left out? Do they come back at the end of the day from foraging? Just a thought.
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To have hived a swarm and lost is better than to never have hived at all.
Scott
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:-D
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Some excellent advise here. I completely enjoy catching swarms (as long as I don't have to climb) but am successful w/ keeping them less than half the time. I 'think' that when they abscound its because the scouts already decided on another place and we beeks just interpupted the process, and unless 'something better' is presented by beeks they just move on.
After catching a swarm I always seal them up and feed for one night, but like I said, it works less than half the time.
thomas
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Does it help to move a fresh caught swarm a few miles away from where it is caught so the scouts can't find the place they had picked to move into. :?
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Some say so, but if you don't know where they came from, maybe they already have travled some distance. I've always positioned caught swarms right with my other hives but maybe that's why they only stick around less than half the time :-\
thomas
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We put out 3 traps. Two have bees...lots of bees coming and going. All of the traps are more than 10 miles from my home where I plan to keep my hives. How long do you wait before moving them to a hive?
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I would wait for about 5 to 7 days, until they had brood, then move them at dusk when all are in for the night.
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I would wait for about 5 to 7 days, until they had brood, then move them at dusk when all are in for the night.
Thanks!
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What Iddee said. If you wait much longer than that, a good swarm will have a nuc completely full.
Jim
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Oh wow! Really?! Thanks for the info.
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Well we went and retrieved our first trap. All went well. They are in the back yard sleeping. What is the best time of day to transfer them to a hive?
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If your trap is near where your hive will be then anytime during the day when the foragers are out is when I would do the transfer. The foragers will come back to a new home.
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If your trap is near where your hive will be then anytime during the day when the foragers are out is when I would do the transfer. The foragers will come back to a new home.
Good deal. I can do it right after work. We had to wait until 8pm - well after sunset to retrieve the trap because they were still bringing the pollen home!
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So we put the 2nd swarm into a hive. The swarm is HUGE! I transferred 6 frames from the trap to the hive. ALL of them had comb on them, almost covered on both sides with lots of honey. (They were in there less than 1 week.) I put them in 1 brood box and 1 super. There are still probably 1000 bees sitting in the trap in front of the hive. When do I add another brood box or super? It seems very crowded.
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Add another super when they fill 80% of the frames in the top box.
Jim
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That's a nice swarm
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Thanks!
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I have only been beekeeping for 3 years but I have been very fortunate and have not lost a swarm yet that actually went into my traps. I've caught 9 this year. I use old 10 frame deeps and 8 frame mediums. (More luck with the deeps), I use a combination of old dark pulled comb and some newer frames they can pull. Like most I put them 10-15 feet up if possible on bee travel routes I have observed and in and around fruit trees. I will leave the swarm alone for 5-7 days before moving them and I always move them more than 5 miles from the catch sight. I move them at night once the bees are all home, and then re-box them 3-5 days later. I usually add a frame of honey and brood from another hive unless they already have eggs or larve of their own and keep them tight for awhile to prevent wax moths from slipping in. Good luck.
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So both swarms are in hives. They are building comb, storing and capping honey. The 1st one has a couple of frames with capped brood cells, so I know the queen is there. I checked the 2nd hive today, they've only been in the hive 4 - 5 days. I pulled out 1 frame that had numerous queen cells near the top and in the center of the frame, 8 still capped. Thoughts? Recommendations?
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I hope you were gentle. That is a fragile stage of queen development.
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I was. Should I be worried that they are going to swarm?
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That sounds like a supercedure to me. It is not uncommon for a Primary swarm to replace the queen shortly after they swarm. The good thing is that you should end up with a mother and the daughter laying eggs in the hive. It can be really good for the hive if there is enough bees and drawn comb available.
Jim
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A swarm in a trap has made the "decision" to be there and they will typically not be abscond candidates....its the swarms you capture and force into a box that are more likely to run off....with that said I have lost a swarm or two from traps at the transfer stage....when they go nuts and cross comb everything and you have to perform a cutout to get them set right when you move them from the trap to a permanent box they tend to take offense and I find those situations they are the absolute most likely to abscond....after losing some I now throw a queen excluder under the brood box to keep the queen in but allow her to do her thing...once they have open brood I remove the excluder.
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Thanks for the info. I feel much better!
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Jealous!
2nd yr. beekeeper. I built a trap and set it. Now the waiting game. I went with old brown frame comb with a little bit of honey comb and a store bought attractant. It's been a week. Thanks for your post. I'll keep an eye on it. *wink!*