Ok, Crazy Bait Hive Question Time...

[CapnChkn]

I've been reading all the information I can about setting up bait hives, and have most of the ideas in play now, but one thing that has my brain cooking to the point the fleas are jumping off my itchy scalp while I go out and set up another is:

Scenario)  I know the bees are around.  I've seen one or two.  I have them digging around in the flowers, and I've had them investigating the comb I'm setting in the traps, but I don't see them like I used to.  There are no hives in the immediate vicinity, except maybe a tree I can't see them in.

If I am setting an artificial hive for them, artificial "come hither" smell, and so on to make all look like a great place to live, could I also set out some sugar water with Essential oils to also make an artificial bloom?  Is there some con to my thinking I'm overlooking?  Robbing wouldn't be a problem, as I have said, there are no hives within a quarter mile.

[AllenF]

I read in one of the journals a while back that a small percentage of the swarm bees scouts had already visited a swarm trap once in their life before the swarm swarmed.   And if you see bees, there are hives around.   So you want to put out syrup and make the wild hives fill up fast and swarm, right.   Sounds like a plan, but it is a long shot.  Very long that a swarm would happen from your feeding and move into your trap.  But it may happen.   Traps are placed all over for wild hives.

[FRAMEshift]

If I am setting an artificial hive for them, artificial "come hither" smell, and so on to make all look like a great place to live, could I also set out some sugar water with Essential oils to also make an artificial bloom? 

Given that bees travel far and wide for nectar, I doubt that blooms are key to finding a new nest site.  They are looking for a space that is dry and dark and preferably off the ground.  And when they get there, the smell of former inhabitants (brood smell, citrus smell, and queen pheromone) are all good.  So.... you can probably prove me wrong  :-D    but honestly, I don't think I would bother.

[Keith13]

if there is a flow on bees will ignore sugar water correct?

Keith

[CapnChkn]

Well, so far the advice I've gotten, besides the usual, is to put the boxes around trees that are blooming.  If the scouts are frequenting the obvious hangouts, then why not get them to my beeyard with bait?  Any fisherman knows the stumps, holes, and logs in the stream, but also knows how to chum a spot to get the fish to come there.

Anyway, the question I was asking is not so much, "Will this work?", rather than "Why would this be a bad idea?"  Nobody immediately answered with a negative, and it wont hurt to try.  I'll tell you what I discover.

[BjornBee]

Will it work?

No way to answer that. Swarm traps and offering old comb and lures increase your chances, but how do you measure success?

If no swarms take up residence, is that failure if no swarms were issued in the area?
If you caught a swarm, how many bypassed your trap that were not even seen?

While I think bees will be successful, propagate, and multiply in areas with abundant resources, this may have to do with logistics of flow dynamics and available timing to allow bees to deal with overwintering, etc. No doubt bees would be seen on a map, if possible to mark every feral hive, as less in some areas, and greater concentrations in others. But I think that would be more of a "region" type indication based on a host of factors.

I do not think that micro-placement of swarm traps in a confined area around hives, and selecting for one clump of trees over another, thinking they will favor a certain trap, based on nectar, would make a difference.

[CapnChkn]

I'm just thinking of this as bee advertising, rather than trying to convince them it's a good place to raise a family.  If there are bees out there, and they're looking for a home, they will find one.  I get that.  But what if they don't know the home is there?

What is attracting the scout/foragers is not the sight of a cavity in a tree, but the smell, sight, and taste of nectar and pollen they are searching for.  Though I can see the bee following a scent of a hive, queen, or Nasanov pheromone to it's source to check out what's happenin' round hea, I don't see a bee actively seeking other hives or cavities until instinct drives them.

On the way to a flower patch, they would pass by this spot for something that's nearby to something they already know.  I know I'm stretching this to the point of anthropomorphization, but Contrarywise is not about just doing it backwards.  It's about why.

[BlueBee]

CapnChkn, maybe you need to go on a bee hunt. :)  

I read this interesting free old book from the NC State Library about how settlers used to go hunting for bees.   They have tips about attracting bees and then tracking them.  Amazing what efforts the settlers went through to get bees!  You might get a kick out of it too.

http://www.archive.org/download/http://www.archive.org/details/beehuntingbookof00lock

[CapnChkn]

Yessir!

I first read about bee-lining in Euell Gibbons book, "Stalking the Healthful Herbs."  At least I think it was, that was 35 years ago.  I never got the hang of it, and I never really tried.  I have one good eye now, and it's not all that great.  Thanks for the link!

It isn't working though, here's the one I get on the American Libraries site.  Downloads in .pdf, kindle, regular text, and good ole HTML with Javascripts.
http://www.archive.org/download/http://www.archive.org/details/beehuntingbookof00lock

I had USCBeeman out to the farm, and he looked into the trees, commented he didn't see any bees working them.  Well I feel like a dummy.  This will actually help me hone what pitiful skills I still have.

[BlueBee]

Sorry about that, it looks like original link just went to their home page.  If the following direct link to the pdf
doesn't work, you can type in "bee hunting" in the search box on the original link.

http://www.archive.org/download/beehuntingbookof00lock/beehuntingbookof00lock.pdf

Title of the book is "bee hunting" by A.R. Harding publishing, copyright 1908.

[CapnChkn]

Ok, here's a followup.

I made a syrup with 1:1, and 8 drops each of Lemon grass oil, Peppermint extract, and Anise extract.  When the bees were feeding, they would drown themselves in it if I left it open for a few seconds.  This sat out there for a week and I attracted ants and a mouse, but the bees ignored it.

Even when it warmed up and they were checking out the bait hives, they were more interested in the moldy old comb.  I placed some honey out in a cap, and that was ignored.  The bees went in and out of the hives all day, the syrup and honey sat there all day.

[Brian D. Bray]

Ok, here's a followup.

I made a syrup with 1:1, and 8 drops each of Lemon grass oil, Peppermint extract, and Anise extract.  When the bees were feeding, they would drown themselves in it if I left it open for a few seconds.  This sat out there for a week and I attracted ants and a mouse, but the bees ignored it.

Even when it warmed up and they were checking out the bait hives, they were more interested in the moldy old comb.  I placed some honey out in a cap, and that was ignored.  The bees went in and out of the hives all day, the syrup and honey sat there all day.

Aren't bees wonderful?  If a flow is on, bees will often ignore syrups, honey, and other such things set out for them. Just like they might be all over a particular type of flower one year and leave it completely alone the next.  such things drive beekeepers crasy.

If you want to do bee lining use fresh honey from a hive, and put it out when flowering is low.  If using simple syrup use 1:1 with a little ACV in it and nothing else. Bees will be much more apt to take the bait in those cases.