Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Bees pulling out larvae  (Read 10866 times)

Offline CapnChkn

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
  • Gender: Male
Bees pulling out larvae
« on: April 27, 2011, 10:36:00 pm »
We're having a serious storm front moving through, it's that time of the year for this stuff here I guess.  I was looking over the swarm I caught in middle April, and they were pulling out what looked like little snotty blobs of Tofu, or macaroni that's been cooked way too long.

I picked one up with the tip of my pocket knife, and they're larvae.  Hmmm.  Could the brood have been chilled or should I worry about a heavier problem?
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline hankdog1

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 849
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 11:06:11 pm »
Have you looked inside?  Post some pics if you can there are a few things it could be.  I seriously doubt it being chilled brood this time of year and you being further south then me.  Sounds kinda like a brood disease but without pics it's hard to tell which one.
Take me to the land of milk and honey!!!

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19958
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 01:39:32 am »
Whatever the issue is, they seem to be dealing with it.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline FRAMEshift

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1681
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 09:15:41 am »
they were pulling out what looked like little snotty blobs of Tofu

That sounds like European Foul Brood.  We get that every year at the beginning of June and the bees take care of it by themselves.   

Right now we have drone larvae being thrown out of one hive that also has kwing virus.  But that hive is our fastest growing hive overall.  A healthy hive can take care of a lot of problems and keep on going.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline CapnChkn

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2011, 02:50:17 pm »
In this season, I have more work to do than I want.  I haven't got into the hive again yet, but I did go out and find the one blob left on the landing board.  This hive that usually is fairly quiet, foragers coming and leaving a few at a time, is now out and running all over the landing board.



They're just a little swarm.  I picked up about a quart of bees.  They should be starting to break out of the cells in about 6 days.  I caught them in this hive, and left them the way they are, though they might have a little too much room.  I took half of the frames out so I could put regular deeps in there.  So far they've been happy to build between the sheets of plastic foundation.

"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline hardwood

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3482
  • Gender: Male
  • Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2011, 09:02:13 pm »
That poor larva! First it's ruthlessly jerked out of bed for some reason it doesn't understand and then some big two-eyed monster comes along and skewers it!

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline forrestcav

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 250
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2011, 09:44:43 pm »
Larvae kabobs??? ancient chinnese delicatecy
Just a beek trying to get ready for winter.

Offline CapnChkn

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 02:51:53 am »
This is sad as well.  I went out to the yard, the bees in that hive were extra excited.  I came back out and they were everywhere.  I followed and got them in a nuc box, then went to look at the hive.  The bottom is covered with grubs.  I'm thinking they were robbed, but never saw any indication they were having trouble. 



I had the entrance reduced to just about 3 bee widths, and one bee height.  I have my chair right next to, that is 2 or 3 feet, from the entrance of this colony, and I only saw one fight.  I have seen some black bees, but I thought they might be from this swarm. 




That swarm left the nuc I had put them in and took off for parts unknown.  I went in to look at the other colonies, and they seem to be doing very well.  In fact the best drawn comb is a swarm I managed to trap on Easter day, on a top bar.

One thing, the rain was so hard water poured out when I tipped the hives forward.  All the brood in the combs were healthy looking, white in color, curled in the base in a nice "c" shape, and in various stages of development.  Some of the capped brood was opened, a nice little circle cut in the cap, white pupae looking out.

This hive had a lot of SHB, I could count 40 or 50 on the combs, and I was always squishing about a dozen on the top of the inner cover when I filled the syrup.  Still, there only is just about 40 or 50 orange colored (from crawling through the pollen I guess) SHB larvae on one comb with plastic foundation.  Just what the heck happened here?
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline Tommyt

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 855
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 07:48:45 am »
I think you just said it above
SHB :-x
They over came the colony

I'm new so take it, as it is

Tommyt
"Not everything found on the internet is accurate"
Abraham Lincoln

Offline forrestcav

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 250
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 10:19:55 am »
darn  :(
Just a beek trying to get ready for winter.

Offline CapnChkn

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 12:12:37 pm »
Tommyt, I have had the SHB experience, and this was nothing like that.  When SHB overcomes a colony, the combs are riddled with the "bleep" worms crawling, chewing, and crapping in everything.  There's just one frame that shows any of that kind of activity, and only in one corner.

"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline sc-bee

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2985
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 02:01:51 pm »
Most probably SHB ---- I too have had a bit of experience with them. In a small swarm in particular, when they are trying to estalish, they will tear out the comb to rid the comb of the shb eggs and larvae. As they tear the comb out they dump the larvae. The more honey and pollen you have for the SHB to feed on the more plentiful the signs of collapse.

The extra space probably contibuted to the problem. Too much room for the bees to protect.

I have not yet been able to save a colony once I have spoted bettle larvae, regardless of the colony size. I have tried traps, freezing etc. but to no avail once SHB larvae are spotted  :(
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 02:47:18 pm by sc-bee »
John 3:16

Offline asprince

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1743
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 02:39:04 pm »
I have not yet been able to save a colony once I have spoted bettle larvae, regardless of the colony size. I have tried traps, freezing etc. but to no avail once SHB larvae are spotted  :(

I have but it takes drastic measures. Remove ALL infected comb, pull out all frames and track down and smash all adult beetles, and condense and pack the colony to a smaller space.

Good luck,

Steve
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resembalance to the first. - Ronald Reagan

Offline CapnChkn

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 04:34:25 pm »
Well, I don't know about the SHB that was there, I do know that I now have a full blown war going on.  I just locked all the bees up behind robber screens, dead bees all around.  My mistake I guess, I left that open hive there to allow the existing colonies to clean out the combs.  Now you can see the extent of my experience, "just enough to be dangerous."

My reasoning was there wasn't really enough honey and pollen to make a difference.  I'm starting to think there's a feral hive around that haunts that beeyard.  I'm a'gonna wait until night and open a single bee space for the two left, leaving the screens in place.  Or should I force the robbers in the hives to re-orient by keeping them shut up for 3 days?
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline sc-bee

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2985
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 06:14:08 pm »
I would go with the closing down of the entrance to allow the bees to guard it easier. Try that first before closing them down. Take a look early on tomorrow and then decide if another route is needed. If close to a water source some folks cover with a sheet etc. and wet it down, I have never tried this. Do a search if this method is feasible for you if the closing of the entrance does not work.

Of course you know to remove any outside feeding sources if you have any.

I have the robber/moving screens where the slot open @ the top.

I'm gonna jinx myself, so far I have been lucky not to have robbing issues but alot of my bees are mutts and I have read that supposedly Italians are more prone to robbing. Not sure what your bees are?
John 3:16

Offline CapnChkn

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2011, 03:54:15 am »
Actually I had the entrances down to their smallest.  As stated above, I had some of the entrances at about 3 bee widths, and one bee height. 1 1/4 (OK, 5 bee widths, 3 bee lengths) inches by 5/16 (32 x 8mm).  In the hive started from a nuc, I made a spacer that has an opening of 4 x 5/16 inches (100 x 8mm).



I used this same screen last year, and it didn't stop the robbers, but that colony had no queen.  Now I have had the bees shut in all day, I opened the door a crack at dusk; I intend to break this cycle if I can.  I know the robbers were inside this hive, and they will just bring the gang back when I open it up again.

They're mutt bees as well, I guess mostly Italian in descent, Amber abdomens with black bands.  Some of the bees in the Original hive in this post were darker, but I never got any drones to tell you what they may look like.  I did see a drone in the Nuc/hive.  He's a big yaller one.  The bees I caught in the trap, are as yet unknown.

I actually don't know if determining race by their coloration is all that accurate now.  Like Indians, the actual number of "Pure Blood" could be put on a 747 with seats to spare.  I know at least one Mohawk that has blond hair, blue eyes, and a BIA ID card.

Demeanor by race is also not all that accurate.  When talking about Dogs, genetics are chosen for an arrested development, and behavior is chosen for a breed.  Seeing that bees fly out to a place where Drones wait to chase and fertilize a queen, 10 to 15 times, it's not likely a "breed" of bee will have the same characteristics as would be in that race's known attributes, unless that queen is artificially inseminated.

Take into account the fact bees in the Americas 150 years ago were mostly Mellifera Mellifera.  With the discovery of mellifera ligustica, the race was brought into service in this country and slowly replaced M. M. until all bees I seem to see today are M. L.  Also, unless I've been mislead, intentionally or otherwise, hybrids of M. M. is a testy, hot bee.  I regularly go to bee trees and hives, sit right next to them without fear, investigated but not threatened, suggesting the feral population has become placid through natural selection.

It would be easy to simply say the "defensive" gene was diluted by interbreeding with M. L.  But genetics doesn't work that way.  Now days I see bees with Black butts, Brown butts, More brown butts, and I'm still looking for that little bee with the half black, and half brown butt.

As for me, I can tell you that I come from predominantly Northern European stock.  Though some in my family see only the color in our ancestry, I can safely say my butt is pretty brown.

I will try to use the robber screen alone, I don't really have any place to put these bees except where they are.  Beyond the feral hives out in the trees here (I'm right next to the Stones River Battleground, so there's a lot of old growth forest around.), my neighbor has colonies across the road, about an eighth mile.
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline Tommyt

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 855
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bees pulling out larvae
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2011, 09:01:10 am »
Time to go hive hunting :roll: Capture and keep  :-D


I read a book on Hunting Bees it was a decent read but haven't tried it ........YET!!


Tommyt
"Not everything found on the internet is accurate"
Abraham Lincoln