Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => DOWN UNDER BEEKEEPING => Topic started by: OzBuzz on September 05, 2012, 09:15:34 am
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Hi folks, just wondering if you can give me some advice... I've just put two hives in to a fully enclosed shadehouse - it's quite large and there's plent of honey stores! There's also quite a few fruit trees in flower and a ready source of water... What are the risks? What should I look out for? And how should I manage them?
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Go into the enclosure and look up. By now you probably have several thousand bees trying to get out and they will probably die trying. I would move the bees out side. Let us know what you find.
Jim
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That was my concern - I'd love to move them oustide but, as mentioned, the enclosure is fully enclosed... I've situated the hives directly in front of the rows of fruit trees so the first thing they see when they fly out of the hive is the flowering fruit trees. I initially thought that each end of the shadehouse was open but upon delivery last night i found that wasn't the case... I don't think that the owner of the shadehouse has even built in the ability to open up any of the ends from the look of the design.
There are two doors on the facility that could potentially be opened and the hives placed in the door way facing in to the shadehouse which would allow the bees the possibility to fly outside as well. Would it be beneficial to have these doors open now? will they eventually find that as their way out?
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(http://s12.postimage.org/71sls9ujd/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/71sls9ujd/)
(http://s12.postimage.org/85cq48f6h/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/85cq48f6h/)
(http://s12.postimage.org/xpjloepy1/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xpjloepy1/)
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So the sides are open, it's not a greenhouse.
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No, sadly, the sides aren't open at all :( in the initial photos i was sent i thought that the left and right side of the pictures were closed down to the ground and the front and back of the images were open - but that's not the case
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The farm manager sent me through some pictures this morning! it seems that they've started working the flowers and returning to the hive - but there are some that have gone to the shade cloth apparently less than 100 over the whole structure... is this something that they will realise isn't an option or will they just keep on doing it? any thoughts/input much appreciated...
(http://s16.postimage.org/7d39jgx4h/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/7d39jgx4h/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/eucgyomnl/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eucgyomnl/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/tszh6ur3l/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tszh6ur3l/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/vyts1cuk1/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vyts1cuk1/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/s3qdysbe9/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s3qdysbe9/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/jmqvnv6pd/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jmqvnv6pd/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/q5jq0siwh/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/q5jq0siwh/)
The o
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what is the height of the ceiling? bees will circle up to orient their flight. some go higher than others. try placing a shield over the hives that is about 1 1/2 to 2 meters long to drive their flight path down. this may help in training their path to stay lower but they may still go high on the return flight to the hive.
john
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Hey Oz
just place the hives outside of the shade area, the bees will find the best way in and out,
I wouldn't put the hives "under or in" the shade house.
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Hey Oz
just place the hives outside of the shade area, the bees will find the best way in and out,
I wouldn't put the hives "under or in" the shade house.
I reckon eco is on the money, they only need a small gap to find a way in , maybe the owner could make a few small holes?
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Hey Oz
just place the hives outside of the shade area, the bees will find the best way in and out,
I wouldn't put the hives "under or in" the shade house.
I suggested that! even gave the whole spiel that it will be better in the long term for the hive and the pollination etc etc but they've insisted that the hives have to remain fully inside this shadehouse! There's also absolutely no gaps or ability to make gaps without taking to it with a knife! this thing is sealed tight! it's a massive structure! over 3,000m2 with ceiling height of at least 10m... the orchard manager is keeping a close eye on the hives and they've been seen to be working the flowers. He's said at the end of each day he'll walk around to shake any bees off the cloth with the hope that they give up and fly back to the hive. There hasn't been huge numbers on the cloth in the last day (maximum of about 100 over the whole structure) and the beehives have been positioned right in front of the flowering trees so hopefully they're working on the proviso that it's easier flying to the closest pollen/nectar source than flying any distance. Saying that we haven't had a really warm day yet that will get the hive really moving! There's heaps of honey in the hive so they're not going to starve out - it's just determining the best way to get them to work the flowering trees rather than wanting to go out through the shade cloth. I think part of my management plan will have to be rotating hives through along with closely monitoring populations etc. At the moment the hives are supposed to be there for 8 weeks... I'm more than happy for any thoughts/input...
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Is there any material/colour that could be used to mark some exits from the shade house that the bees would be able to clearly see? Apparently there are some gaps around the structure that a few bees have been able to get out of but not back in to the hive. Similarly, could a pipe be run from the hive to the outside world that would give them a way to work outside of the hive as well? Theoretically bees working the flowers of the fruit trees should fly straight back to the hive so they should head to the walls (hopefully). The cloth on the structure itself isn't solid material - its more like a chain mesh so, I guess, it may even be possible that the bees can squeeze through the holes maybe - all dependent on the mesh size I guess. Any thoughts much appreciated...
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I wonder how much of the shade cloth they can see. I mean, from the outside, how much of a distinction can they make, or what landmarks can they see to navigate back in. I would think ti wouldn't matter too much what colour you made the entrance, just so long as you distinguish it from the surrounding expanse of cloth. Although I seem to recall they don't see red all that well but I reckon white or yellow would work well. Maybe you could also erect a landmark above your hives so they have something else to orient to.
You stated in an earlier post that you were thinking of rotating hives through the term of the contract. What is your reasoning for this? I would have thought there will be an initial huge learning curve for each new hive that gets placed on location but the newly emerging bees from an in-situ hive will have less of a learning curve. As long as your population numbers stay fair I would be inclined to leave the same hives there.
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Hey Oz
just place the hives outside of the shade area, the bees will find the best way in and out,
I wouldn't put the hives "under or in" the shade house.
I suggested that! even gave the whole spiel that it will be better in the long term for the hive and the pollination etc etc but they've insisted that the hives have to remain fully inside this shadehouse! There's also absolutely no gaps or ability to make gaps without taking to it with a knife! this thing is sealed tight! it's a massive structure! over 3,000m2 with ceiling height of at least 10m... the orchard manager is keeping a close eye on the hives and they've been seen to be working the flowers. He's said at the end of each day he'll walk around to shake any bees off the cloth with the hope that they give up and fly back to the hive. There hasn't been huge numbers on the cloth in the last day (maximum of about 100 over the whole structure) and the beehives have been positioned right in front of the flowering trees so hopefully they're working on the proviso that it's easier flying to the closest pollen/nectar source than flying any distance. Saying that we haven't had a really warm day yet that will get the hive really moving! There's heaps of honey in the hive so they're not going to starve out - it's just determining the best way to get them to work the flowering trees rather than wanting to go out through the shade cloth. I think part of my management plan will have to be rotating hives through along with closely monitoring populations etc. At the moment the hives are supposed to be there for 8 weeks... I'm more than happy for any thoughts/input...
Are saying this shade house is about 10m to the ceiling and about 3,000m square ???
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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Are saying this shade house is about 10m to the ceiling and about 3,000m square ???
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
That's correct Jim about 10m tall and 3,000sqm - it's massive! The manager is sending me some specs on the cloth they use! It's more for bird and hail protection than for shade or warmth.
I wonder the same things Bernsad... I see your point in regard leaving the hives in and not rotating! I just hate the thought that some of my babies might not be getting home because of me :(
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Are saying this shade house is about 10m to the ceiling and about 3,000m square ???
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
That's correct Jim about 10m tall and 3,000sqm - it's massive! The manager is sending me some specs on the cloth they use! It's more for bird and hail protection than for shade or warmth.
I wonder the same things Bernsad... I see your point in regard leaving the hives in and not rotating! I just hate the thought that some of my babies might not be getting home because of me :(
So as at 3 Hectares or 9 Hectares ??? 1 Hectare = 2.47105381 Acres
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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It 3/4 acre - There's near enough to 4000 square metres to the acre.
It's not unusual to have very large areas under netting like that around here. We have a cherry farm close to us that has 5 acres under netting to keep out birds and hail - costs big $$$. Although their netting is slightly larger than shade cloth to allow the insects in and out but keeps birds and hail out.
malachii
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Does it definitely let bees through it malachii? I'll have the specs of this actual cloth tomorrow to know for sure
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You should probably be able to tell just by looking at it Oz. If it looks like a giant queen excluder or coarser, then the bees can get through, if it is finer than that, approaching a shadecloth type of mesh then it will keep them out. I use a shadecloth surround around some of my hive to force the girls up into the air so they don't bother the kids in the backyard.
I understand your feeling about some of the girls not getting home but I think your losses will be higher if you keep changing over the hives.
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What rate are you getting per hive per week?
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What rate are you getting per hive per week?
No offence intended 100 TD but that relates to my original question how? What do you charge your customers for pollination contract? rates that any beekeeper contracts out their hives for is something that's typically negotiated between the farmer and the beekeeper dependent on crop requirements, management difficulty, cost as a result of lost production etc.
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You should probably be able to tell just by looking at it Oz. If it looks like a giant queen excluder or coarser, then the bees can get through, if it is finer than that, approaching a shadecloth type of mesh then it will keep them out. I use a shadecloth surround around some of my hive to force the girls up into the air so they don't bother the kids in the backyard.
I understand your feeling about some of the girls not getting home but I think your losses will be higher if you keep changing over the hives.
G'day Mate,
I haven't actually had a look at it through the day yet but i suspect it may be too small for them to get through - I'll wait until i have the full specs from the grower to draw that conclusion though. Interestingly the other day the grower was watching the bees on the netting for me and he was finding that they would fly to the net - bounce off it 20 or so times and then fly back to the hive... so maybe they're learning! they're also actively taking pollen back to the hive from the trees and, in the growers words, were 'swarming' the flowers the other day so it's sounding 'so far so good'. I'll have to keep a close eye on them though and potentially give them some pollen supplement
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Does it definitely let bees through it malachii? I'll have the specs of this actual cloth tomorrow to know for sure
Bees definiety go through it. It's small enough to keep birds and hail out but is probably a bit larger than a queen excluder mesh.
malachii
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Apparently there's quite a few bees getting out but not able to get back in - so it mustn't be easy for them to get through it.
I've had the client ask if we can modify the setup slightly so that he can close the entrance off if he wants to show people through the orchard. What I've thought of is drilling a hole in the side of the super and connecting some 50mm ag pipe (it's corrugated flexible pipe similar to vaccuum cleaner hoses) and running that from the hive to the outside of the shade cloth and then, where it exits the shade cloth, having it exit through a piece of timber that's been painted in a bright colour so that they can orient to it. What are peoples thoughts about that idea? That would mean that the bees can get adequate pollen/nectar/water from outside of the shade cloth whilst ensuring adequate pollination to the trees that are flowering directly in front of the hives. In regard setting that up it would make sense to put some grass or a branch in front of the new exit so that they re-orient to it correct? Does that sound like it could work or would the bees exiting the hive from the normal entrance inside the enclosure try and fly back to the entrance outside of the shadecloth?
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Do they really need to get right down near your hives? I mean, they've got 3000sq.m to inspect, does he have to interfere with the hives just to show visitors around? I hope you're getting a good rate for the contract mate, it's starting to sound more trouble than it's worth if you ask me.
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This as that at looks like to me
http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/2179045276/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/2179045276/#)
http://www.cvtobacco.com/tobacco_story.html (http://www.cvtobacco.com/tobacco_story.html)
http://www.cigarlife.com/stories/tobaccodays.htm (http://www.cigarlife.com/stories/tobaccodays.htm)
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0PDoKu3_U5Ql1sAa7WJzbkF?p=shade%20grown%20tobacco&fr2=piv-image (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0PDoKu3_U5Ql1sAa7WJzbkF?p=shade%20grown%20tobacco&fr2=piv-image)
This as about at hr a way from where I live.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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And I'v seen up to 20-30 acres cove at a time.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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Ozzie,
I don't see how less than an acre could be enough to support one or more hives considering bees normally forage several kilometers. You said the supplies are good. It will be interesting to know if supplies decrease after having them in the orchard or if the hive/s maintain their strength. Have caution with pollen supplement if you use it as I've read it can attract shb. Thanks for the photos. Let us know the progress.
Lone
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Ozzie,
I don't see how less than an acre could be enough to support one or more hives considering bees normally forage several kilometers. You said the supplies are good. It will be interesting to know if supplies decrease after having them in the orchard or if the hive/s maintain their strength. Have caution with pollen supplement if you use it as I've read it can attract shb. Thanks for the photos. Let us know the progress.
Lone
You're right Lone, it won't be enough solely to keep them going... With the recent 'amendments' that have been requested in going to be putting an entrance outside of the shade cloth as well... It will be via about 10m of grey water corrugated pipe connected in to a hole in the back of the hive and a 'landing board' outside of the shade cloth. I'm hoping the bees will use both entrances - the one on the base board to pollinate the trees and the other outside of the shade cloth to get more supplies. I'm hoping that the bees that exit from the base board don't try and return to the entrance that's outside the shade cloth! But! If they do I've made a landing board that will sit on the inside of the shade cloth directly behind the landing board that's outside of the shade cloth that's connected to the outside landing board by the same pipe - so hopefully they would hit the inside landing board, walk through the pipe, then connect with the outside landing board and then walk down to the other hole and then walk the length of the pipe back to the hive...
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Photo time again please Oz hahaha
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Absolutely mate - I'll be installing it this afternoon... I just hope my theory works!
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How did this go in the end? Everyone satisfied?