8 frame boxes for inside width, not weight

[contactme_11]

   For some time I've been thinking about trying some 8 frame equipment. Not because of the weight factor (which isn't an issue for me at this point in time), but because it has been said that it is closer to the natural brood cluster size. Only problem is I already have lots of extra 10 frame equipment around.
   So what I've been thinking is this. If I was to continue constructing my boxes at standard 19 7/8" length, but instead of using 3/4" boards on the sides at 16.25" I could use 2"x lumber for just the sides.  This would give me an inside width of about 13.25" (same outside dimentions as ten frame). Standard 8 frame has an inside width of 12.5" and that's pretty tight. If I was to do this then I could go 8 frames for the brood boxes but still use 10 frames in my honey supers and all the components would be interchangable. Only problem I can see would be the weight, but like I said before I don't care about that. Thoughts?

[Robo]

Why not just use follower boards -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23432.0.html

Or cut down your 10 frame equipment to 8 frame like MB did -> http://bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm

[fish_stix]

Are you using 8 frame equipment from one of the normal suppliers or from someone who built them himself. I have Dadant 8 frame equipment which measures 13 3/4" outside and 12 3/16" inside. With 8 frames in the box there is 1 1/16" open space which is way more than enough to manipulate frames. If they were 12 1/2" inside you could most likely get a ninth frame in the box but it would then be pretty tight to work with.

[wd]

In your opinion, which is better to run 8 or 9 frames?

Why not just use follower boards -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23432.0.html

Or cut down your 10 frame equipment to 8 frame like MB did -> http://bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm

[Bigeddie]

Why not just use follower boards -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23432.0.html

Or cut down your 10 frame equipment to 8 frame like MB did -> http://bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm[/url
ote]

How could you cut boxes down if they were built with box joints?

[Mason]

I got slammed by some guys on here for using 9 frames instead of 10.  The seasoned guys in my area mostly use nine frames with spacers.  I chose to start out with the 9 frame spacers to not seem as if I was not listening to my local support beekeepers out of respect and the likelihood of needing their direct help in the future.

I was told.............

the advantage of nine frames is that you kill less bees on inspections.  8 might work even better in this regard but wonder if it might encourage bur comb or erratic comb building.  I did have a few frames that were built out almost double decker with comb in spots.  I cut that comb out and they rebuilt the comb perfectly.

[wd]

yes I see that, Thanks

Obviously I'm wondering what Robo's personal opinion is. guess I'll leave it as is and see for myself.

Why not just use follower boards -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23432.0.html

Or cut down your 10 frame equipment to 8 frame like MB did -> http://bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm[/url
ote]

How could you cut boxes down if they were built with box joints?

You do use them on each side.  Since they are only 3/8" wide,  you only remove one frame.

[wd]

I got slammed by some guys on here for using 9 frames instead of 10.  The seasoned guys in my area mostly use nine frames with spacers.  I chose to start out with the 9 frame spacers to not seem as if I was not listening to my local support beekeepers out of respect and the likelihood of needing their direct help in the future.

I was told.............

the advantage of nine frames is that you kill less bees on inspections.  8 might work even better in this regard but wonder if it might encourage bur comb or erratic comb building.  I did have a few frames that were built out almost double decker with comb in spots.  I cut that comb out and they rebuilt the comb perfectly.

Thanks!

[Robo]

My understanding is Nathan wants to run 8 frames in a 10 frame box by decreasing the inside dimensions of the 10 frame box to that of an 8 frame box and keep normal frame spacing. Not increase frame spacing to fill a 10-frame box with 8 frames.

My opinion with standard langstroth is 10 in the brood box is best. You get more brood space,  and there is no advantage of overdrawing comb in the brood area as there is in honey supers.  Ya you might kill a few more bees with you aren't careful, but it pales in comparison with the added brood you get.   I run 10 in the brood and 9 in the supers.  Now if standardizing is important and you don't want to mess with have some ten and some 9, then going all 9 is not a catastrophe.  I have some with 9 in the brood area just because that was the equipment I had with me at the time.   I do notice much more burr comb and propolizing when they only have 9 though.

I have never used 8 frame boxes, but can see the possible advantages that Nathan is considering.

[wd]

some times I'm a little thick headed. ty

[USC Beeman in TN]

I am going to 8-frame from 10-frame.  The outside frames in 10-frame setup are hard to get the bees to fill out (unless the start from the outside first which I have had them do).

I plan on using more 9-frame setups in my 10-frame boxes now that I am starting to get some combed frames and also have some more Permacomb.  I have also started (too late in the season to do anything) setting up some 7-frame setups in 8-frame equipment. 

[Michael Bush]

I have pictures on my site of cutting down boxes.  It matters not what style of corners it has.  When you are done the cut down side has a butt joint, mostly, with a 3/8" ear on each side to close the gap that would be left by the frame rabbet.

[slaphead]

My 8-frame equipment uses 12" internal, 13.5" external width boxes.  To date have had no problem at all with rolling bees while pulling frames from these boxes while they contained 8 frames.  If you think about it eight 1 3/8" frames take up 11" of space so the 12" internal width provides you with 1" of extra width to play with.  I make sure my frames are pushed across to one side of the box.  I've also used these boxes to hold nine 1 1/4" frames and found them a bit tight for this purpose.  Possibly because I'm using natural comb and in my case the bees built them with a slight wave.  A 12.5" internal width would definitely work better for running nine 1 1/4" frames per box.

SH