Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: beebiz on February 21, 2006, 11:59:19 pm
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Hey all,
I know it's early to be thinking of such, but I'm doing a little "forward thinking"!!
I don't have an extractor, don't have the money to buy one, and don't see that situation changing in the near future. Right now I don't even have the price of a bottling bucket strainer system.... but I'm hoping. Just in case I can't get one, what kind of material should I purchase to strain my "crush & strain" honey? And, before anyone says cheesecloth, I tried to strain some honey several years ago with some cheese cloth that I bought at Wal-Mart and it didn't work very well for me. The cheese cloth seemed to absorb way to much honey and it was a pain in the butt getting it out!!
By the way, since I only have one hive I won't be selling any of the honey. I will be using it for my own personal use and will share some with my parents and syblings. I just want to make sure that I get as much wax and impurities filtered out as I can while loosing as little honey as possible.
Speaking of filters..... what kind of material should I use to filter liquid wax?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Robert
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You plan is quite bad. When you broke combs and bees need to build them every time again you will loose 50% of yield every year.
And if you learn to keep bees it is easy to keep 3 hives and get honey to sell. If you are not going to earn with bees you just loose your money, even if you do not have it.
You are going to be a real regressed beekeeper with your small cells. That is Afro style.
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Finsky said:
That is Afro style.
What the heck is that supposed to mean??????
Finsky also said:
You are going to be a real regressed beekeeper with your small cells.
Assuming that you mean that my bees will be regressed to small cell comb, that's what I want!!! Unless I am BADLY mistaken, that is one of the newer means to combat mites without having to use chemicals!! I LIKE that idea!!!!!
First, I'm not physically able to handle more than one or two hives!!
Second, and now repeating myself.... I am not going to be selling honey!!! I simply want to keep the bees for my own enjoyment and to help pollinate my garden/flowers!!
Third, my parents, my syblings, and I like some of the honey in the comb and some strained!!
Fourth, I plan to make other uses of the wax that I harvest from my hive!
Fith, even if my bees produce 50% less honey because of having to build new comb, it's fine with me. I will gladly accept whatever the girls can share with me!! I'm NOT looking to get rich!!
And finally, by the time everything is said and done this year, it will have cost me no more than a couple of bags of sugar, some pollen suppliment, and my time to get whatever amount of honey and wax I get from the girls. How the heck can I LOSE money if the whole experience has been enjoyable and therapeutic for me and my garden/flowers have been pollinated to boot???
Have you not heard of Top Bar Hive Beekeeping???? You might be right, but according to what I have read about Top Bar Hives and what several of their keepers have told me there is a reduction of honey production in a hive where there is no comb to start the bees. But, according to those same sources your estimation of a 50% reduction in honey production is WAY OFF!!!!! According to those sources, the reduction is MUCH less!!
Sir, I have enjoyed reading your responses in the past, but NOT this time!!! I have found this particular response offensive and demeaning to say the least!!! If you cannot answer a simple question without bashing a beekeeper for his/her preferred style of beekeeping, I would MUCH prefer that you didn't answer AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
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Beebiz; you might want to try melting the lot out using a solar extractor. Just make sure it doesn't get too hot. I know a beekeeper who does this because they are short of time for extraction and don't keep a centrifugal extractor.
The bees are kept with no foundation (just a starter wax drizzle along the frame) so that it is a simple matter of cutting the wax out and placing the lot in the tray and letting the sun do the rest.
The honey is drained off from below the wax once the whole mass has been extracted in this way - post filtering is required, but a kitchen sieve and then some cheesecloth might be the way to go here. Don't forget to save some comb honey!
However, as Finsky says you will loose your comb which is inefficient for the bees, but you won't have to worry about the extraction so that's the bonus you are looking for I think!
I've not actually witnessed this in action so some more opinions of the method would be good to get and some cheap designs for this type of melter. Polycarbonate cellular roofing is pretty cheap for a sheet and light (some people recommend a double glazing unit, but these are pretty heavy and pricey) - you just need a tray of some sort under this which is wax/honey proof and a hole at one end for it all to run out of.
You'll also end up with a big block of useful beeswax...
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While you can melt the remaing honey when you get done, it would be a shame to heat it when you don't need to. I've used everything from nylon window screen to nylon cloth to cheescloth for a strainger. The window screen works fine. What wax gets through, which won't be much, will rise tothe top and can be skimmed off with a sheet of saran wrap. I tend to put the saran wrap on a paper plate and eat the honey with the wax myself. :)
It's really a simple and messy process. But then so is extracting. You are already using whatever you'r using, but for crush and strain I would use starter strips or unwired wax or some kind of foundationless. If you already have plastic foundation it will be a little more work to scrape the combs off the foundation and you'll need to rig some way to drain the frames because they will have a lot of honey on them. If you have wax, you can just cut the sombs out and squisth them. I leave the top row at least half on so the bees will have a good starting point for the next comb.
You'll need a double bucket strainer. They are easy to make. Here's some pictures:
http://bwrangler.atspace.com/bee/thar.htm
I just mash the combs with my hands.
Here's what Richard Taylor says about wax and honey and extractors:
Richard Taylor on Comb Honey:
"A comb honey beekeeper really needs, in addition to his bees and the usual apiary equipment and tools, only one other thing, and that is a pocket knife. The day you go into producing extracted honey, on the other hand, you must begin to think no only of an extractor, which is a costly machine used only a relatively minute part of the year, but also of uncapping equipment, strainers, settling tanks, wax melters, bottle filling equipment, pails and utensils galore and endless things. Besides this you must have a place to store supers of combs, subject to damage by moths and rodents and, given the nature of beeswax, very subject to destruction by fire. And still more: You must begin to think in terms of a whole new building, namely, a honey house, suitably constructed, supplied with power, and equipped....
"All this seems obvious enough, and yet time after time I have seen novice beekeepers, as soon as they had built their apiaries up to a half dozen or so hives, begin to look around for an extractor. It is as if one were to establish a small garden by the kitchen door, and then at once begin looking for a tractor to till it with. Unless then, you have, or plan eventually to have, perhaps fifty or more colonies of bees, you should try to resist looking in bee catalogs at the extractors and other enchanting and tempting tools that are offered and instead look with renewed fondness at your little pocket knife, so symbolic of the simplicity that is the mark of every truly good life."
Richard Taylor on the expense of making wax:
"The opinion of experts once was that the production of beeswax in a colony required great quantities of nectar which, since it was turned into wax, would never be turned into honey. Until quite recently it was thought that bees could store seven pounds of honey for every pound of beeswax that they needed to manufacture for the construction of their combs--a figure which seems never to have been given any scientific basis, and which is in any case quite certainly wrong. The widespread view that if the combs were used over and over, through the use of the honey extractor, then the bees would be saved the trouble of building them and could convert the nectar thus saved into honey, was only minimally correct. A strong colony of bees will make almost as much comb honey as extracted honey on a strong honey flow. The advantage of the extractor, in increasing harvests, is that honey stored from minor flows, or gathered by the bees over many weeks of the summer, can easily be extracted, but comb honey cannot be easily produced under those conditions."
from The Comb Honey Book, by Richard Taylor
To put it in perspective, yes, if you have a farm you should buy a tractor. If you have a little postage stamp garden you should buy a shovel. If you have fifty hives you need an extractor unless you have a market for that much comb honey. If you have one or two hives, it's a waste of time and money. Taylor had hundreds of hives and no extractor and made a nice living selling honey.
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Have you not heard of Top Bar Hive Beekeeping????
Yes, 44 years ago I started with "almost top bar hive". It was a box where I put a swarm. Second hive was a straw skep with natural combs just like in the pic.
(http://www.apbu68.dsl.pipex.com/assets/images/skep.gif)
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My dearest Mr. Bush,
I figured you would be the one to come through for me..... and sure enough YOU DID!!!!!!!! I simply wanted to know what kind of material was best for straining my honey..... and you told me!!! And, I am VERY greatful to you for that!!
From what you have said in many of your other posts and what you quoted from Mr. Richard Taylor, you both sound like the kind of guys that I wish I had as local mentors!! As I said before, I am physically unable to handle more than one or two hives.
In addition to that, I want to handle things as naturally and as chemically free as possible. And in additioin to that, I REFUSE to pay $200 and up for an extractor that will be used to extract honey from 1, 2, or even 3 hives and then have it sit, collect dust, and take up space for the rest of the year. It doesn't make good economical OR common sense!!!
From what I read last night in many of his previous posts, Finsky LOVES to call people's ideas stupid and accuse them of having "bad plans." But if you ask me, anyone who would fork out that kind of money to extract honey from only 1, 2, or 3 hives is bordering on being a mindless idiot themselves!! And, they either have no financial common sense or they have more money than they have sense!!! But, that is THEIR business, NOT MINE!!!! And, I would still be happy to offer FRIENDLY advice and help if I were asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for the foundation in my hive...... THERE ISN'T ANY!!!!!!! And, there never will be!!!!!! I took some scrap oak pieces from the lumber mill, and cut it into strips that were 1/16" thick and 1" tall. I took some fresh beeswax and coated the strips by rubbing them with it. I then used my mini air nailer to attach them to my Lang. topbars. The whole process (not counting going to pick up the lumber from the mill) took me about 30 minutes to do enough for 2 hive bodies!! And, the girls have done very well on it!!
With the arthritis that I have in my fingers, it would have taken me that long or longer to insert foundation and wire it into 4 or 5 frames!
Right now, the girls are in two deep hive bodies. But, after reading many of your posts last night Mr. Bush, I WILL be moving them to med. boxes!! That will solve my problem of having to deal with those EXTREMELY HEAVY deeps. Mr. Bush, when would you suggest that I begin moving the girls to the med. boxes and do you have any suggestions on the best way to do it?
By the way, is "The Comb Honey Book" the complete title of Mr. Richard Taylor's book? I'd like to know so that as soon as I can afford to do so I can get a copy of it.
I thank you, Mr. Bush!! And, I thank God for beekeepers like you, Richard Taylor, and Dee Lusby who are willing to continue to think "outside the norm"!! When you have others bashing you for your work and ideas, just remember that when the idea that simply washing your hands between surgical patients would save lives was first introduced, most doctors thought it was a load of crap TOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Rock on guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't suppose you know anyone who has an extractor you can borrow. That's what I would do, and have done in the past for that matter. The disadvantage of that is that borrowed stuff has a much higher probability of breaking. But then I've used shade cloth too. When I used shadecloth my family didn't like all the big bits in it, so I had it all to myself :mrgreen:.
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Hi Robert and all,
cheese cloth will leave cotton fibers in honey( a place for granulation to start) if your honey sets around that long...! :D
window screen will work, but make sure its stainless steel so you don't get the chance of getting small bits of other stuff in there,(like fiberglass or rust) nylon comes in many forms and found for cheap like shear curtains at the dollar store. just remember to get white ones and to wash it first. As for the wax.... well, cheap big coffee filters work, but they are slow.
I would not advise using solar melter to get your honey out off the wax,
from what I understand sunlight degrades honey and heat ain't that good neither......!
I find if you melt the wax you can scrape the floaties, then pour into milk carton(the waxed paper kind) let it cool over night, tare off carton next day and if you left alittle honey in your wax the rest of the dibreeee
will be left in the bottom in the honey, wash that off with warm water
then cut the dirty wax off the bottom.....if you have less wax use something taller with a smaller dia.
put waste in the trash, cause you don't want to draw other bugs like SHB and wax moth....! dont feed it back to the bees after its been heated you may make them sick...... :( or you could strain the bulk of it and let the bees clean the wax, they do a pretty good job...! though that may start robbing if there are other bees in the area...
I know you said you don't sell it ,but maybe those people that are eating it could help you with some of the cost and labor, I know they're family but................... :) maybe your family could get you a smoker for your beeeday :D
as far as finsky
Sir, I have enjoyed reading your responses in the past, but NOT this time!!! I have found this particular response offensive and demeaning to say the least!!! If you cannot answer a simple question without bashing a beekeeper for his/her preferred style of beekeeping, I would MUCH prefer that you didn't answer AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
that goes for me too.... :D
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I don't suppose you know anyone who has an extractor you can borrow.
Is there a local association you can join? It is common in the UK for beekeeping associations to have equipment, like extractors, to lend out to members. Maybe they can help you out if you do decide to use one.
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I use nylon paint filters from HD. They fit over a 5 gal pail and the wax does not stick much to it. If you pulverize your comb & wax and let it sit much of the wax will rise to the top. Check with your local suppliers. I have rented an extractor for $10/day several times.
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Hey All,
As for other keepers in the area, I only know of one and without going into any details, I had rather not keep bees as to ask him if I can use his extractor or anything else that he has. It's sad that it is that way, but that's the way it is! As for a beekeeping assoc., the closest one to me is between 60 and 70 miles from me. With gas over $2 per gallon and supposed to go up again, I just can't afford the monthly trips right now. Besides, I really don't want to fool with an extractor. And I have no place to store the empty comb when not needed.
It would just be much simpler, cheaper and easier for me to crush and strain than it would be for me to extract. I like the idea of using the cheap, white, sheer curtains to strain the honey with. And, I also like Bwrangler's idea of using a paint straining bag with elastic. Both ideas are simple, inexpensive and will work well with my pickle buckets. Don't worry, the buckets have been cleaned and aired enough that they no longer have any left over pickle flavor or smell!
As for my family's contribution to the process, they all work at jobs that won't allow them to physically help. And, I have already told them that the honey will cost them nothing except the cost of the containers to put it in. But, I know them. And, I have no doubt that they will slip money into my pocket, slip it to my wife, or ask my wife what I need and it will "magically" apear!! We have a close, tight-knit family that way!
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. In September of last year I was talking to my mother about the bees and the honey that I should get this year. She wanted to know what kind of containers I intended to put it in and, I told her that I would probably put it in pint canning jars. A few days later, my wife and I returned from one of those 1/2 day visits to the doctor's office and, what did we find on our front deck??? There were 5 cases of brand new, pint-sized Ball canning jars!! While bringing them inside, I noticed that one of the cases had been partially opened. I finished opening it only to find that rwo twenty dollar bills had been folded up and put inside! Momma denies that she had anything to do with it, but I believe I know better!!
Speaking of my mother, I'd bet she has some sheers that she doesn't need and would be more than glad to give them to me to use to strain the honey! Of course, I will wash them before I strain any honey with them. I'll ask her tonight!
Thanks for all the input!
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And now, however, what I should say? Beebiz, I think that you emptied the slot machine with one hit. I used humour in wrong place. I cannot find your conditions in your first letter, and even I know them better, I would not encourage you to carry out your plan.
If you cannot physically lift heavy weights, it is better have horizontal hive with special model. Full honey boxes are too heavy to lift even to heathy women. I do not know your situation or limits. Difficult to guess. As far I understood from your text, it would be easy to resolve your needs. Sorry, I am not going to irritate you any more.
Yes, I have natural tendency to make people sometimes mad :shock: Do not take this case personally.
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BeeBiz>Right now, the girls are in two deep hive bodies. But, after reading many of your posts last night Mr. Bush, I WILL be moving them to med. boxes!! That will solve my problem of having to deal with those EXTREMELY HEAVY deeps.
Finsky>If you cannot physically lift heavy weights, it is better have horizontal hive with special model.
I'm with Finsky on this. A horizontal hive might solve all of your problems in one fell swoop. Just move all the frames into the long hive and be done with it. But if you want to juggle boxes around, then I'd convert to eight frame mediums.
Full ten frame deeps weigh 90 pounds.
Full ten frame mediums weigh 60 pounds.
Full eight frame mediums weigh 48 pounds.
Check out the horizontal hives on my web site: www.bushfarms.com
BeeBiz>Mr. Bush, when would you suggest that I begin moving the girls to the med. boxes and do you have any suggestions on the best way to do it?
DO you actually have frames or just top bars? If they are frames you'll need to get them into medium frames. The "brute force method" would be to cut the brood out and tie it into medium frames. If you have an excluder (a handy device for things like this) you can put the honey in the deep on the bottom, a queen excluder on top of that, the medium box with the brood tied in the frames on top of that with the queen, and a top entrance of some kind for the drones to get out. Later when they are well established in the mediums on top you can remove the deep on the botom and harvest it.
The patient method is just remove all the honey frames and put the brood in one deep and add mediums and wait for the bees to eventually move up. If you get some brood in the mediums instead of the deep put an excluder on and make sure the queen is above it in the medium.
BeeBiz>By the way, is "The Comb Honey Book" the complete title of Mr. Richard Taylor's book?
Yes it is. It's ISBN number 0-9603288-0-7
BeeBiz>I'd like to know so that as soon as I can afford to do so I can get a copy of it.
I'm not sure where I got mine, but I think it was A.I. Root.
Finsky>Yes, I have natural tendency to make people sometimes mad Shocked Do not take this case personally.
I do not think it is Finsky's intention to be insulting. Part of the problem is, although his English is very good at expressing complex beekeeping concepts, the little things that a "native speaker" would say to "disarm" their disagreement and appear more polite are much more complex. Finsky is a very experienced and knowlegable beekeeper who generously shares what he knows about keeping bees in a very cold climate. I, for one, and thankful for that.
Finsky, thank you.
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wow! wow!
relax
kirko
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well Robo I was offened too!
Not that my limited wisdom means anything in this forum...!
Nor do I want to chase anybody with knowledge away! or anyone without it!
I personly have been learning alot on this forum and do appreciate
everyones input....about the questions I ask, as well as the questions others ask......!
I do beleive that is what a forum is all about, sharing!
So that we may all bee better beekeepers!!!
But come on you guys and gals (Afro style) is not a nice thing to say!!! :shock:
And has nothing to do with beekeeping unless you're talking about AHB's
I know, I've gone off topic before as well.....!
I have felt the same way beebiz did in this post,... because of the way something was said as if I were a lower form of human!
But really Finsky,
what is a shoe trampler ? cause I just really want to Know if I'm one :lol:
Do not take this case personally.
ooopppps! sry I allready let that happen :oops: my bad!
Its your knowledge I value , but I question your values , not visa versa!:lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:
Ok I'll shut up :wink:
ya your right robo he does make one stop and think!
Sorry they just let me out and I can't control myself yet :roll:
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Its your knowledge I value , but I question your values , not visa versa!:lol: :lol: :lol: :shock: :
Well said. My favorite proverb is:" Don't do like I say, use your own brains". 8)
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I cherish all the things that I learn here by accident, and equally those people who choose to share them.
Good luck beebiz, I am starting up beekeeping this year and the cost of an extractor is limiting my actions now as well... And I can't justify paying for an extractor with 1-2 hives.... Maybe I'll try my hand at building one...
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I do not think it is Finsky's intention to be insulting. Part of the problem is, although his English is very good at expressing complex beekeeping concepts, the little things that a "native speaker" would say to "disarm" their disagreement and appear more polite are much more complex. Finsky is a very experienced and knowlegable beekeeper who generously shares what he knows about keeping bees in a very cold climate. I, for one, and thankful for that.
Very well spoken MB, I also believe Finsky did not mean to offend anyone. Look at how diverse our language is even if you live here. I'm from the south and down here if someone said we're going to the apiary do you want to come with? We would stand there waiting for them to finish the sentence.
I once took a trip up north to New York City, I asked a man in the city-where's ya'lls phones. It took him 15 min to figure out I was asking him where are your telephones located. :?
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well glad thats settled
Finsky,.........please please please tell me what a shoe trampler is?
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well glad thats settled
Finsky,.........please please please tell me what a shoe trampler is?
English says "ordinary englishman" . In Finland we often use term "ordinary shoe consumer" or "shoe trampler" or "street trampler" . I do not know what it is in USA.
The word? It suit well, Trambler Definition:
[n] someone who walks with a heavy noisy gait or who stamps on the ground
[n] someone who injures by trampling
Yes it is. What he know about him, he injures his shoes by walking but makes nothing more harms. Let your imagination gallop!
http://www.cs.ust.hk/~yiu/albums/USA2/8Dec/full/DCP_1290.JPG
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Very well spoken MB, I also believe Finsky did not mean to offend anyone.
Heheh. We have a story about our president Kekkonen. He was famous for many things.
Once president Kekkonen visited in the farmhouse and they drinked coffee. Some dropps of coffee sliped on the tablecloth and president apologized and wondered how it may happen.
- Hostess : Oh mister president, that's nothing.
Soon happened same to host and he was sorry for that too!
- Hostess : Oh mine. There I have another bungler!
Afterwards Kekkonen sent a new tablecloath and it was a signature in the card:
Greetings from that first bungler
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I just read the information about the Jackson Horizontal Hive on Rupert's Honey Site in addition to chekcing out Michael's horizontal hive. All I have to say is that I sure wish I had found these before I started keeping my bees in a vertical Lang!!!!
I originally intended to keep them in Top Bar Hives But after seeing pics of collapsed comb, I got spooked and shyed away from them. Besides, I really wanted to keep them in equipment that could easily be interchanged with Lang equipment if needed. But, the Langs are sooo hard on my back. I've had ruptured disks, herniated disks, and have degenerative joint disease in my spine! Combine these conditions with some lifting and you have a recipe for more surgery and WAY TOO MUCH television watching time..... not to mention all the pain and additional meds!! I just don't need that!
I love the idea of the horizontal hives reducing the pounds to be lifted. And, from what I understand about the JHH, they can be done much like a TBH and even further reduce the amount of weight to be lifted. WONDERFUL!!!!!
But, I do have a question. Can I disassemble mediums (I don't have enough deeps to do this) and re-assemble them to make the horrizontal hive? What I mean is, would constructing one this way be structurally sound enough? If not, any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
About the other issues..... It was and is not my intention to try to run anyone (knowledgeable or not so knowledgeable) off. I don't want to do that. And, I might also make mention that I am NOT a thin skinned person. But...... it is EXTREMELY rude, impolite, and down right arrogant to use "stupid" or other highly insulting adjectives to describe a person or their ideas simply because they differ from yours! I don't care how smart or intelligent you are, you just don't do that.... especially in an industry that is constantly begging for newcomers.
And, as for the "Afro style" comment, I was darned offended. And, if a person has any familiarity with the USA (past or present), I'd bet my last dollar that they know why!!!
Mr. Finsky, I have two suggestions for you. You didn't ask for them, but I'm going to give them to you "free of charge" anyway. First, when doling out your vast knowledge about beekeeping, don't do it in such a heavy-handed (or as Trebor called it, "shoe trampler") manner!! Second, before you assume things about a person on a message board, you might check out their "profile." It just might have some valuable information about the person. For example, in my profile, next to "Occupation" it says "disabled." For personal reasons, I don't like stating that I am disabled in a message. That's why it's in my profile. And, a quick check in my dictionary and I find that the very first definition for "disabled" is that is a noun meaning "People who are crippled or otherwise physically handicapped." That might have given you an indication that I am not a "typical" beekeeper and therefore, will probably not be able to manage my bees in a "typical" manner.
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Sorry beebiz! I can see that you real reasons to give me some lectures.
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Yes it is. What he know about him, he injures his shoes by walking but makes nothing more harms. Let your imagination gallop!
You don't EVEN want to see MY shoes!!! :lol:
-- Kris
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And, as for the "Afro style" comment, I was darned offended. And, if a person has any familiarity with the USA (past or present), I'd bet my last dollar that they know why!!!
It's my understanding that extractors are rare in Africa, and most african beekeepers "crush and strain" their crop. And knowing Finsky's use of English as a second language (and watching him mangle his words over the years!), it wasn't difficult for me to understand his meaning. No offense was meant. A person who has familiarity with the contributors on this forum would know why.
-- Kris
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Funny I never had any problem understanding what Finsky ment.
but I suppose that comes from having an understanding of the world, the ENTIRE world.
I would also like to know if any who were offended by Finsk's remarks,
have attempted to learn HIS language? Hmmmm.
That would be in the country of FINLAND. A country with an interesting history.
I also recently read that FINLAND is more competitve than the US in the business world. WOW. Now isn't that something? For people who can't write or speak English well at that???? WOW.
Ah the INTERNET, the WORLD's equalizer? 8)
beebiz, the world will not think less of you if you are disabled and cannot do certain things. Although you state that you had no intention of dwelling on YOUR disability, you somehow managed to make IT the focal point of your argument. So what's it gonna be?
In any event, good luck.
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And, as for the "Afro style" comment, I was darned offended. And, if a person has any familiarity with the USA (past or present), I'd bet my last dollar that they know why!!!
It's my understanding that extractors are rare in Africa, and most african beekeepers "crush and strain" their crop. And knowing Finsky's use of English as a second language (and watching him mangle his words over the years!), it wasn't difficult for me to understand his meaning. No offense was meant. A person who has familiarity with the contributors on this forum would know why.
-- Kris
My thoughts exactly kris, when I first came here I didn't know what to think of how finsky uses english words, but it sounds harsh to people coming here that dont know him,, he just tries to help and sometimes he sounds harsh, but you keep coming and you will see, I dont think he meant anything by it..........plus he has apolgized twice,,, lets move on!!!!
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beebiz, here's some pics and info about a honey press,,,,, this guy made it because he uses topbar hives, if I can find some more I will post it......
http://www2.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/press.htm
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BEEBIZ,
I DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE THAT FINSKY MEANT ANYTHING BUT WELL MEANING IN HIS ADVICE. LIKE MYSELF HE IS BLUNT WITH HIS THOUGHTS ON BEES. HE HAS GIVEN ME ADVISE MANY TIMES AND ALSO MANY TIMES I HAVE READ HIS MESSAGES ON HOW HE WOULD HANDLE CERTAIN SITUATIONS. SOMETIMES HE MAY HAVE TOLD ME IN A WAY THAT I COULD TAKE IT WRONG BUT I UNDERSTAND HIS MEANING AND DO NOT TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY..HE APPEARS TO ME TO HAVE A LOT OF UP STAIRS KNOWLEDGE ON BEE KEEPING. ENOUGH SAID ON THIS.
I MYSELF HAVE NO EXTRACTOR YET AND HAVE MASHED MANY A COMB UP ALTHOUGH I WOULD PREFER NOT TOO. MY WIFE BOUGHT ME A STRAINER AT WALMART FOR PROCESSING VEGETABLES. IT LOOKS LIKE AN OBLONG BASKET AND HAS EXTENDABLE HANDLES THAT ALLOWS ME TO SET IT ON TOP OF A OBLONG PLASTIC PAN (ALSO FROM WALMART). THE MESH IN IT LOOKS LIKE SCREENDOOR MESH BUT IT IS STAINLESS STEEL. I MASH AND LET IT DRIP FOR AN HOUR OR SO THEN MASH MORE AND SO ON. THIS WORKED VERY WELL FOR ME. THE FIRST YEAR I USED THIS I PUT UP 60+ PINTS AND ABOUT 10 QUARTS OUT OF 5 HIVES.
HOPEFULLY ONE DAY I CAN GET ME AN EXTRACTOR DO IT UP RIGHT. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BEEKEEPING BUT I THINK YOU CAN HANDLE 2-3 HIVES AS EASY AS ONE. IT IS A VERY ENJOYABLE HOBBY.
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I have used womens hose (stockings) (New, or course!!!) in the past (to strain honey...not to wear!).
Does anyone see a problem with this? They are cheap and will streatch over a 5-gallon bucket. When you are finished, you just squeez them from the top down and there isn't much honey left in the fabric.
Fuzzybeekeeper
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The comb you are going to crush for honey production won't have brood in it so whether or not it is small cell to fight mites is not really an issue. Right? Every time you make the bees draw out a frame of wax it's just time away from doing other things. $200.00 for an extractor / $4.00 jar of honey. You can make your money back and some in your first year.
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The comb you are going to crush for honey production won't have brood in it so whether or not it is small cell to fight mites is not really an issue. Right? Every time you make the bees draw out a frame of wax it's just time away from doing other things. $200.00 for an extractor / $4.00 jar of honey. You can make your money back and some in your first year.
Good Post Chad, But Beebiz was just looking for another way to get honey without buying a extractor right now and if Beebiz use's a top bar hive a extractor is worthless,,,, but sooner or later with regular langstroth hive's a extractor is the way to go......... oh and by the way I charge $5.50 for a pint jar and $60.00 for a case of 12 pint jars.........everything has gone up ;) and thats only .50 cents higher than last year and allready I have 6 cases pre-sold and 8 jars not counting the jars for family and i dont advertise or sale to stores!!!!, starting my second year of beekeeping for myself....... I stile have to crush and strain the removal hives so its good practice.......
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Normal hive produces 100 lbs honey. When you crush honeycombs you loose 50 lbs every year and you get 50.
What is your consumer prise for honey ? 3-4$ /lbs. It makes per year 150-200 $.
But if you have 1 hive, it may die or it may bring 400 lbs honey. But it is unprobable that someone could learn beekeeping with one hive. Some year yield may be 40 lbs per year if swarm escapes.
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Finsky wrote:
Sorry beebiz! I can see that you real reasons to give me some lectures.
Finsky, I appreciate your apology, I accept it, and I forgive you.
Jack Parr wrote:
I would also like to know if any who were offended by Finsk's remarks, have attempted to learn HIS language? Hmmmm.
That would be in the country of FINLAND.
First, I am well aware of the fact that Finsky hails from FINLAND.... I checked his profile, plus right under his avatar it says, "Location: Finland 60 north degree!"
Next, no sir I have never tried to learn Finnish or Swedish. But, the last time I noticed, English was the language that was used to communicate on this forum.
As I said, I have never tried to learn the native tongue of Finland, but I have learned some German and some Spanish. One of the first things that I was taught about using a language other than my own was that one should NOT use the adjectives found in another language unless one knows the impact that the adjectives used might carry in the other language.
I now understand and believe that Finsky meant no offense by his remarks. I also believe that he now knows why his remarks were so offensive to me. He has now apologized to me in a way that I have been able to understand that it is an apology. And, I have forgiven him. I harbor no bad feelings or ill will toward him. And, I would welcome his input in the future.
TwT wrote:
beebiz, here's some pics and info about a honey press,,,,, this guy made it because he uses topbar hives, if I can find some more I will post it......
http://www2.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/press.htm
Thank you for this information TwT. I've read the entire beekeeping portion of Mr. Satterfield's site. And, I have been considering building a honey press based on his design. And, I also noticed that he says, "Next, the comb is put into a bag for pressing. The bags I use are nylon mesh laundry bags that I purchase at local discount stores . Similar bags are sold in SCUBA diving shops." But, #1, I have been unable to locally locate the nylon mesh laundry bags that he speaks of. #2, there are no local diving shops that I am aware of. All of this inspired my original question:
beebiz wrote:
...what kind of material should I purchase to strain my "crush & strain" honey?
And, that one simple question led to all all of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This must be beekeeping and it must be in the USA!! :lol:
COLVIN wrote:
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BEEKEEPING BUT I THINK YOU CAN HANDLE 2-3 HIVES AS EASY AS ONE. IT IS A VERY ENJOYABLE HOBBY.
With the condition of my back as well as other physical problems, there is no way that I could handle 2 or 3 hives if they were kept in the Lang deeps. Using Lang mediums gave me hope that I could handle 1 or maybe two. But, after Finsky and Michael's suggestion to use the horizontal hives, I feel sure that I can probably handle a dozen or more! Simply because of the fact that it can be done without all of the heavy lifting.
Jack Parr wrote:
beebiz, the world will not think less of you if you are disabled and cannot do certain things. Although you state that you had no intention of dwelling on YOUR disability, you somehow managed to make IT the focal point of your argument. So what's it gonna be?
I realize that the wold will think no less of me because of my inabilities to do certain things. And, really wouldn't care if they did. The "personal" reasons of which I spoke refers to my own problem with dealing with the idea that I am disabled. To look at me, you would never know that there was a thing in the world wrong with me except that I am about 50 pounds overweight. And, the looks from others in the past have spoke volumes to this! But, the real "kick in the groin" is the fact that I am only 45 years old.... I've not been injured in an accident, I've not been wounded in combat, nor was I born with a debilitating affliction. And, in my world unless the aforementioned circumstances apply, a 45 year old man is not supposed to be disabled!! Yet, I am. And, mentally I don't deal with it very well. That's why I don't like to have it "in my face."
When I made my original post, I had no intention of dwelling on my disabilities. But, thanks to the direction that this thread went, I had little choice but to make "IT the focal point" of my argument, as you say.
So, what it will be is this. I will very seldom utilize my disabilities as the focal point of my requests for information about beekeeping. But, if I am doing or wanting to do things in a manner which is outside the "norm" because of my disabilities, and someone tries to deter me from using methods that are outside the "norm," I will introduce the fact of my disabilities in order to educate that person as to the "method to my madness." That is how it will be
Oh, and thank you for the "good luck" wishes.... in any event!
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By the way, no one has bothered to address this quettion yet:
beebiz wrote:
But, I do have a question. Can I disassemble mediums (I don't have enough deeps to do this) and re-assemble them to make the horrizontal hive? What I mean is, would constructing one this way be structurally sound enough? If not, any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
The "ideas or suggestions" to which I refer are to ideas or suggestions as to how I might be able to use the mediums for the horizontal hive.
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TWT:
I get $6.00 a lb for honey. I sold a case of 24 1lb jars for $110.00. I used $4.00 as an example to show that even at rock bottom prices you can make back the cost of extracting equipment. I made back ALL of my start up costs and some.
I just can't see trying to strain honey in a pair of panty hose?
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TWT:
I just can't see trying to strain honey in a pair of panty hose?
there isn't a extractor for topbar hives, I dont think anyway,,, well I have use it and will continue useing it because when i do removals, that the only way i can :wink: , I have a motorized 24 frames extractor and it works great for my hives but still have to use panthose for removal's, I put the comb in it and start ringing (twisting) and get alot of honey, but you right, it is better to have a extractor on frame combs...
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Hi all
I really can't believe the B.S. that Finskys come in for. As I think the only one here who was actualy BORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in Africa and have lived and visited countries in the north, middle and south of this vast continent. I TOOK NO OFFENCE IN THE COMMENTS HE MADE. The only offence that was there was found by those actively looking for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
Late last year I visited both Zimbabwe and Zambia. Both are amongst the poorest coutries on this earth. There are a good few people I met in these places that could give us lessons in humility and decency. As well as coping with conditions that make some of the poor in the west look like kings (YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF THIS KIND OF POVERTY UNLESS YOU HAVE WITNESSED IT) Some of them would have to work for a couple of MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! before they where lucky enough to see $20.00 let alone find it on the door step!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have also seen beekeepers in these areas keeping bees the same way that has been practiced for hundreds of years. None I met would be offended by describing some of there methods as basic or primitive. Yet they all exibit a great pride in their bees and some could teach us a thing or two about handling and bee management, as well as dealing with adverse circumstances.
In terms of Finskys comments about smash and strain being AFRO STYLE HE WAS 100% CORRECT I'VE SEEN IT DONE AND HELPED DO IT.
This post is not meant as an attack on others but an attempt to set the record straight and inform those who have not been fortunate enough to visit this varied and diverse continent.
As for people being offended, should I now whinge about some reactions to the terminology AFRO STYLE BECAUSE I WAS BORN THERE. AFTER ALL WHAT'S WRONG WITH AFRICANS? PERSONALLY I MIGHT GET OFFENDED IF SOMEONE CALLED ME AMERICAN BUT I WOULD NOT WASTE MY TIME GIVING THEM AN EAR FULL.
Have a nice day y'all
Regards Ian
P.S ONLY KIDDING
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there isn't a extractor for topbar hives, I dont think anyway,,,
http://betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=916
http://betterbee.com/departments2.asp?dept=466&bot=88
Just got my new betterbee catalog today this is what it says about this extractor on page 55;
"This extractor was originally built to extract frames from top bar hives."
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We use pantyhose material to strain our fryer oil before processing it into biodiesel, and it has to be pretty clean or it would clog up the reactor. I don't see why it wouldn't strain honey just as well. Wash it first with an antibiotic soap and rinse well if you're concerned about that. For myself, I just use regular window screening to drip the extra honey off my cappings when I extract. But now that I think about it, the next time I might try putting the wet cappings in a knee-high and spinning THAT in the extractor.
-- Kris
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And, before anyone says cheesecloth, I tried to strain some honey several years ago with some cheese cloth that I bought at Wal-Mart and it didn't work very well for me. The cheese cloth seemed to absorb way to much honey and it was a pain in the butt getting it out!!
You need to wet it and wring it out first. 20 years ago that was the norm and it worked fine.
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>But, I do have a question. Can I disassemble mediums (I don't have enough deeps to do this) and re-assemble them to make the horrizontal hive? What I mean is, would constructing one this way be structurally sound enough? If not, any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
It's not worth the hassle. Save them for nucs for starting hives in and catcing swarms in. Make the hive from one by eights and you don't have to rip them down even.
> $200.00 for an extractor
Where can you get an extractor for $200?
>$4.00 jar of honey. You can make your money back and some in your first year.
Or cut it for cut comb and sell it for $6 or more a pound and NOT buy the extractor and it's all profit.
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Where can you get an extractor for $200?
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/productdetails.asp?ProdID=HH-159
http://www.gabees.com/catalog/index.htm?658.htm&1
http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=355
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OH BOY ! If i like to insult someone I have now really good material in front of me. Tell me when we start. Who is first?
(http://tecfa.unige.ch/~nova/img/1231055247106.jpg)
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Finsky, I LOVE your sniper kitty!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
Thanks for the input Michael.
Michael Bush wrote:
Or cut it for cut comb and sell it for $6 or more a pound and NOT buy the extractor and it's all profit.
Or do like I intend to do.... crush and strain, then use the wax to make your wife those good smelling candles that sell for $5 and up! I've seen her go through 15 of them in a month's time. She likes to keep one going in every room!!
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then use the wax to make your wife those good smelling candles that sell for $5 and up! I've seen her go through 15 of them in a month's time. She likes to keep one going in every room!!
To produce 1 lbs wax bees need to gather 8 lbs honey. If you get 4 lbs wax from hive per summer you do not get many cancles. If bees do not get honey whey will not make wax.
If you like to sell candles it is better to buy extra waxes from beekeepers. Raw wax is very cheap when you pick it from farm.
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Beewax from China
You may ask from China what is the price of beewax 1 ton in USA harbour
May le <muddha@hotmail.com>
http://www.chinabees.com/htm3/cpjs/beeswax.htm
Or you may buy ready beewax candles and sell them.
http://chinasuppliers.21food.com/offerdetail/42518/beeswax-candle.html
.
GO FOR IT!
.
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Thanks Finsky! But, I don't think I want to get that deep into the candle making!! I don't want to sell them..... I just thought I'd use the wax that I get from the bees to make a few candles for my wife. You know, to kind of keep her happy! :D
I have given some very serious consideration to the suggestion that you and Michael made about me using a horizontal hive. And, I've pretty much made up my mind that I will give it a try. If it works well for me and is as easy on my back as it sounds like it will be, I may end up with several hives!!! But, I'd like to just try 1 or 2 before I begin mass production of the horizontal hives! :)
If they work well for me and I am physically able to keep up with them, I'm sure that I will purchase an extractor. But, that will be some time down the road. If I were to begin extracting honey, I would need a place to store the combs while they are not in use, and I don't have such a place right now. And, it will probably be some time before I can financially aford to build such a place. For now, I will just have to be happy with my 1 hive and the dream of acres and acres of hives!!!! :D
Thanks again for your input!
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It just goes to show its not just a language problem. My fellow countryman (twice) COULD OF upset me, I was raised in in Africa too and now reside in UK
Lets just stop argueing with each other and get on with exchanging bee knowledge and take from it what we wish and leave that we do not agree with. Ive seen posts from most of you saying somthing on the lines of "ask 10 beekeepers a question and get 10 different answers that are all correct"
Moan over.
Late last year I was thinking of going over to longhive (due to my age and disability) and saw that Michael Bush operated both vertical and horizontal hives I corresponded with him on the subject and got some good advise. I did this because although in Africa the most common hive is a longhive they have a different race of bees Following his and other advice I have spent the winter making a couple of longhives and will put them to use as soon as I am able. So if you are considering it also Beebiz good luck to you
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there isn't a extractor for topbar hives, I dont think anyway,,,
http://betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=916
http://betterbee.com/departments2.asp?dept=466&bot=88
Just got my new betterbee catalog today this is what it says about this extractor on page 55;
"This extractor was originally built to extract frames from top bar hives."
The Sweinty extractor featured in the Better bee catalogue WAS devised exactly for the A F R O nations of the world. At 229 bucks it is not the best deal and an equivelent priced up-right extractor would be better IMO, for the non A F R O countries.
Personally I purchased the " Italian extractor " featured on the same page. Having that 100 # holding tank at the bottom of the contraption is really very nice. The" Little Italy " will do two deep frames or four mediums. The screen that the honey goes through is all I use as a filter. Works well. With a little modifaction the " Little Italy" can be modified with an electric motor, if so desired.
Ian Micheal , everything in America is about " RACE ". and of course there are those who are offended, or, pretend to be offended by " so called incorrect terms " A F R O ??? that are used or misused. Personally, I am not offended because I come from the former " Plantation " part of the US and know the story. :wink:
I would also like to thank you and your long dead ancestors " read Europeans" for in fact getting the " New World " into the predictment of the" R A C E - A F R O " quandry. Of course YOU know that story. :?: :?:
Funny how these FORUMS tend to drift into " off-topics". :lol:
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Afro??? Isn't that a hair style from the sixties???
Jack Parr,
The catalog never says if the little Italian is a radial or tangential since you have one perhaps you could enlighten me. Thanks
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I have a little Italian also, it's Tangential. It's great though. That holding tank underneath is awesome and comes with a filter.
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I know this topic has gone from hot to warm to hot to cool, but I need to say a few word here publicly....
BeeBiz - John F. Kennedy made a major German language blunder in his famous "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech in Berlin, Germany. The story goes that he should have said "Ich bin Berliner" ("I am a citizen of Berlin"), and that "Ich bin ein Berliner" really means "I am a jelly doughnut." (A "Berliner" is in fact a type of jelly doughnut made in Berlin.) Keep this OFTEN NOTED speech blunder in mine when dealing in an INTERNATIONAL FORUM.
I strongly suggest if you have a problem with another member, done the following: inform them privately that you find their words offensive and also let the forum moderators know or me privately that you were offended by something said. I know it is NOT easy to feel slapped in the face and not slap back, but whether you agree or not - THAT is exactly what you should do.
If his reply was offensive, it could have AND WOULD HAVE been removed immediately. You did not choose this option, so you entered into a battle of words willingly. And frankly, the more Finsky replies, the deeper his foot goes into his mouth, every time when an issue turns confrontational! His word usage and frankness (a definite cultural thing Finsky claims - I honestly don't know) differs greatly than how most people approach an issue. Being from a RED STATE (Conservative red - that's a good red) you have obvious traits that differ from Finsky. A southern Gentleman (and call me a stereo-typist if you want) should be insulted, unless of course he understood Finsky's meaning which started this melee.
I understand where you are coming from BeeBiz, my brother died at 21 from respiratory failure after a totally debilitating life of Cerebral Palsy - he couldn't walk, talk or feed himself, but his mind was as sharp as mine and yours. I KNOW the frustration he felt and how it can effect the "length of your fuse" when dealing with anyone who seems to be baiting you - whether they are or not. I just ask you now, to cool your jets a bit and FINSKY I ask you the same.
FINSKY - as cute as you Sniper Kitty may be, put it back in it's cage and keep your boxing gloves in their case where they belong.
I have been aware of Finsky's "use" of English for a very long time, you are not disclosing anything that we all don't already know - FEW PEOPLE in the forum have come to bat for him as I have and occasionally I hear it from the masses, but I need a membership willing to accept people NOT ONLY for who they are, but from "where" they have been shaped and molded. If you can not accept "that" different cultures need to respect each other, then this forum is NOT a place to be.
A quick note on the Afro-style comment. I understood what Finsky meant. If he had said Irish Style, Italian style or any other style, would you have reacted the same way? His reply was not racist, it was factual to a method of netting honey from comb.
I pride anyone using English as a second language, but when you add it to Finlandian culture which (if we use Finsky as an example) uses worlds to debate issues without the "use of respect and consideration" as much of the world expects in a sentence, then reading Finsky's replies might be like chewing "a mouth full of aluminum foil" with a "mouth full of fillings".
Think of him as an UNPOLISHED ROCK, all jagged and pointy, yet toss him in the tumbler for a while (a very long while) a beautiful gem appears. You have the right to assume I'm nuts on that, but I'm telling you as I see it. That may explain to many of you WHY he has been around as long as he has, I'm a true belief in a persons potential, not their appearance and I give everyone here that same courtesy. BLATANT ATTACKS get you booted on the spot, but that is another issue all together.
Sadly, we never get to see the polished stone that Finsky could be - I've known that and accept him as an example of what English would be WITHOUT all the POMP and CIRCUMSTANCE we commonly speak. Finsky is what he is, love him or hate him - there are VERY FEW people neutral on him.
So BeeBiz, I leave you with an old TQM (Total Quality Management) saying, you can't change them, you can only change you. I'm not asking you to be stepped on by him or anyone else here, just don't do what our government (lately) loves to do, that is "spread democracy and diplomacy to the world" we don't do that here, we keep bees here.
Again, if there is a problem post, we can make it go away, or (and I rarely use this word EDIT the content down. I have a language filter and I believe IT is enough of a control method in these forums. The rest is up to the membership and how well they conduct themselves. That is why in MOST FORUMS members can not edit their own text, I set it up that way as an insurance policy - be sure you type is what you mean, because once it is posted it is there for everyone to see until edited or delete by the moderators.
Behave, both of you - these long letters give me a headache. And lastly, as I read the replies here, I see an informal poll concerning how different members feel about Finsky - the forum is NOT where members are discussed openly, it only baits more of the same peeing contests that will not be tolerated.
Now.... shallow and medium supers do seem like a better way to go. Cost wise, it is more costly to have a 5ft tall hive made of shallows compared to the cost of deeps - more supers, more frames, etc., even when the cost of parts are cheaper per part, you need more quantity. But the weight difference could be the difference of saving your spine or crippling yourself more.
I know from what I have read that money is a serious concern, I would hope that local club support could help you out - your bee yard could even be a club project, in that case YOU get the benefits of having the bees, yet the cost could be offset and assistance might be available. I hope you find the answers you are looking for, surely someone could extract frames for you, I can't imagine a club without members willing to help out.
We have probes circling the moons of Saturn taking high resolution images showing that liquid water is spouting up from below the surface and freezing into crystals, forming ice volcanoes and adding crystals to the planets rings - SURELY there has to be a way for you to keep bees with having to suffer.