Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: asprince on March 07, 2011, 09:30:24 pm

Title: Busy busy busy!
Post by: asprince on March 07, 2011, 09:30:24 pm
I have been busy for about a week cleaning up old boxes and painting. I have 20 2lb packages coming Friday. I am concerned with the package size. I have always purchased 3lb. packages. I will give each one four frames of drawn comb and they will be placed on canola that is just starting to bloom. Anyone else started 2lb packages?

Steve
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: iddee on March 07, 2011, 09:37:47 pm
30 years ago, 2 lb packages were the norm. Only after the mite appeared did the 3 lb ones get popular. They should be fine in your area if you can keep the SHB and fire ants out of them.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: beetalkin on March 07, 2011, 09:47:28 pm
you might use a follower board to restrict space for the 1st week or so.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 08, 2011, 11:39:02 pm
As long as you have drawn comb, 2 pound packages are fine.  3 pound packages are better if you are starting a package on all foundation.

I know a guy who started about 600 2 pound packages on drawn comb last year, split the strong hives to get up to 800 hives, and averaged 197 pounds of honey per hive last year.  Managed properly, 2 pound packages will work just fine.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: hardwood on March 08, 2011, 11:49:21 pm
197lb average? Holy cow, I'd love to be able to get that!

Scott
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: jmblakeney on March 09, 2011, 12:00:46 am
197lb average? Holy cow, I'd love to be able to get that!
Me too.   I'm just hoping they'll  have enough extra for me to get some.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 09, 2011, 01:10:06 am
197lb average? Holy cow, I'd love to be able to get that!

Scott
  scott the keeper he speaks of shakes all the bees at end of season -so i am sure that number includes the honey from the brood chamber -meaning nothing left behind-still a lot of honey -RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Tommyt on March 09, 2011, 08:14:44 am
 scott the keeper he speaks of shakes all the bees at end of season -so i am sure that number includes the honey from the brood chamber -meaning nothing left behind-still a lot of honey -RDY-B
Correct me if I am wrong
Quote
shakes all the bees at end of season
= the bees get the boots!
up in smoke,Hit the Road Jack! seeya later alligator, Ciao!


Tommyt
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: T Beek on March 09, 2011, 08:58:52 am
 :?
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 09, 2011, 06:31:00 pm
yep you got it -the bees are shaken into someone else's equipment-then next spring they replenish with
packages -no chems and no varoa worries -that is a production strategy for 600-800 colonies -and the
keeper says he is one of Ohio's biggest honey producer-they take it all--RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: T Beek on March 09, 2011, 07:48:24 pm
Worked for an outfit like that over 30 years ago.  Taught me all kinds of bad habits that I've had to un-learn.

thomas
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Tommyt on March 09, 2011, 08:39:41 pm
I wonder If I should be there and drive them to Florida
I'd have me, some bees maybe stop by JP's on the return see if he,Emil or
schawee needs a few and any one else on the south bound return
Thats a mess of bees

6 to 8 HUNDRED colonies in the wind  :shock:

Wow

Tommyt
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 09, 2011, 09:44:06 pm
  there is a sale of the bees- :loll:-at a very reasonable price-this came about after considerably
  objection by other keepers -but a i understand it -there was a time when IN THE WIND was the
 method of choice--RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: hardwood on March 09, 2011, 10:46:48 pm
Common practice among migratory pollinating outfits is to sell off all hives after coming back from the almonds and buy all new equipment to stock with packages. It makes sense on the books.

The bees come back from almonds weak and stressed. Why would they want to nurse them back to health when they can sell them at a good profit ($600 for a four way pallet...bees/boxes/tops/pallet) when they can buy new bees and equipment for under $500 and start fresh with less needed care to make it back to the almonds?

There's one here selling off 20,000 hives right now.

Scott
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Vance G on March 09, 2011, 10:54:09 pm
In  North Dakota thirty years ago, most small non migratory beekeepers got out the can of cyanide and a rose duster and killed everything at the first frost.  Many of the migratory outfits killed all that they didn't need to take south to split back to their target number.  Never seemed quite fair to me.  I gassed the ones that I knew weren't going to make the winter to save the honey.  That seemed more humane than shaking them off into a snowbank.  Times change. 
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 09, 2011, 11:04:12 pm
 some years like this one the bees are busting at the seams coming out of almonds-
 another practice that proves profitable is to sell nucs from half your bees -make honey from the other half-
 Almonds are great for early build up-but out of state keepers take a risk but they keep coming every year -
 the keeper we where speaking of dosent migrate -he runs static yards for honey and depopulates the hives for winter
 and replenishes them with packages in the spring-if he brought them to cali for almonds it would be easy 60-80 thousand
 profit after shiping-but every one has a management program-the colonies that are up for sale every year are weak from AFB-infested hives limped along with antibiotics-and many other problems-lots of out of state keepers sell them off as not to pay the cost to ship them back-and this gives them a chance to refresh there operation with clean wooden ware and bees-is the name of the outfit you speak of BELL HONEY if so i was told those bees are sold--RDY-B
http://img842.imageshack.us/i/1000212w.jpg/ (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/1000212w.jpg/)
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 09, 2011, 11:38:06 pm
so i am sure that number includes the honey from the brood chamber -meaning nothing left behind-still a lot of honey

Brood combs are NOT extracted.  Only mediums and shallow supers above excluders were extracted.

Correct me if I am wrong

Wrong

= the bees get the boots!
up in smoke,Hit the Road Jack! seeya later alligator, Ciao!


As in sold to someone else - bye-bye bees.

there was a time when IN THE WIND was the
 method of choice


No, it wasn't.  It was a different method of choice, but considering the labor involved in shaking, and the lack of overwintering quality from those bees, I think the original method of choice was the correct one for that operation and those bees.

It's amusing how other people think they know more about how others operate than people doing the work there.  Who cares about facts when you have folks spreading misinformation?
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 10, 2011, 01:03:40 am
 my source of information are from Ron posts-glad your easily amused -a little over defensive but amused none the
same-im glad you are able to shed light on this as to the method and prior method of the shaking of the bees-it was Ron who used the term clean up work of the brood boxes and told of the extra profit that was made by extracting they honey
and using the frame filling machine-for next years feed-I believe that this was done perhaps after the bees where shook
or perhaps you can tell me about frames of honey that where compiled after the shake and what became of the honey frames-at any rate -the condition of the bees is something eles you have mentioned-is this a mite issue or just a issue of
 no winter bees being reared and a time frame issue-also the price for the bees i know it is carved in stone in some post but do you have first hand no-ledge -also wondered if you your self have given any thought as to obtaining these bees-or
would the winter bee to much for any success-hope you dont mind all the questions but it is a very interesting subject to me-- :) RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Tommyt on March 10, 2011, 09:06:20 am
OK 1 more OK a few More ?? :-D

When these bees have worked the crops they were put on they did their job(correct?)
What is it that makes them poor?
I would think that If i had a ton of bees that are hard working,
I would keep them,I know I must be missing something Large because this seems to be
known by all (excluding me) what makes them disease ridden
If its weakens that causes  disease what caused weakness
 If they want every drop of honey and that is the reason It seems you could  gain more by leaving a bit and not buying so many new bees (a offset cost)
I would think bringing the colony down to 1 full box should
not need much in $$ to get by the winter especially if they got them to a better climate
Thanks for the education

Tommyt
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: T Beek on March 10, 2011, 10:44:24 am
Like it or not, as in most endeavors, there are always some whose only motivation is maximum profit, little else matters.  Wall-Street is an extreme example (most of them care little beyond the days action or who was affected by their action) but beekeeping unfortunately, is not exempted from those same extremes some find neccessary to maximize profit.  We should not be surprized by human treatment of bees (or any other lifeform we deem inferior while in the pursuit of profit) :(

thomas
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: fish_stix on March 10, 2011, 03:02:24 pm
First of all nobody said the Ohio bees are diseased. They are not! The guys business is producing honey. He stocks his hives with fresh packages every year on drawn comb which is stored over the winter. He makes his honey crop and instead of nursing bees through the winter he sells the bees. No winter labor costs, no Varroa treatment costs, no winter feed costs. It's a good business model; it makes him a living for his family. It's nobody else's business what he does with his bees. If you want you can call and volunteer to buy them at a very attractive price and he'll help you shake them into your boxes for a small fee, otherwise you do all the work. If I lived up north I'd be inclined to do the same as him; and there are plenty of other northern beeks who use the same techniques. You folks don't have to believe me but there some of us who intend to make our living from bees, not just pontificate about "helping the poor bees."   :roll:   BTW, T Beek; while making my living from my bees I intend to maximize my profits. Any way feasible within my own business model.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: lenape13 on March 10, 2011, 03:28:33 pm
I'd love to get my hands on some of those bees.  I like a challenge, and nursing bees through the winter is nothing new to me.  I'd just have to buy a few more blocks of fondant!   :-D
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Scadsobees on March 10, 2011, 04:06:12 pm
While dumping the bees in the fall makes me FEEL uncomfortable, honestly...we never let the steak grow back on a cow before we cut another off. :roll:
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 11, 2011, 01:34:51 pm
my source of information are from Ron posts-glad your easily amused -a little over defensive but amused none the
same-im glad you are able to shed light on this as to the method and prior method of the shaking of the bees-it was Ron who used the term clean up work of the brood boxes and told of the extra profit that was made by extracting they honey
and using the frame filling machine-for next years feed-I believe that this was done perhaps after the bees where shook
or perhaps you can tell me about frames of honey that where compiled after the shake and what became of the honey frames-at any rate -the condition of the bees is something eles you have mentioned-is this a mite issue or just a issue of
 no winter bees being reared and a time frame issue-also the price for the bees i know it is carved in stone in some post but do you have first hand no-ledge -also wondered if you your self have given any thought as to obtaining these bees-or
would the winter bee to much for any success-hope you dont mind all the questions but it is a very interesting subject to me-- :) RDY-B  
   09-11-2010, 05:05 PM
The Honey Householder 
    
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NW, Ohio
Posts: 608
 Re: 2010 honey production
Started shaking hive yesterday and pulling leftovers. Looks like maybe another 5 ton in leftovers.
Wow Rick 275 APH. I'm looking forward to that year. We might do 190-195 APH this year. I'll know by the end of the week when I'm done shaking.
Bees look very clean and lower mite count this year. Most are shaking out at 6-9 lbs. Glad I'm not having to feed them.
 

The Honey Householder 
    
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NW, Ohio
Posts: 608
 Re: How many supers do you keep on each colony?
I do a double pull with a clean up pull just before shaking the bees. I run in singles so I place 2 super above excluder at time of package shaking. Because I run in singles my avg. super per hive is 5-6 mediums. For this year was not enough, and hard to keep up in great crop years (great problem). Just need to extract faster, and get the boxes back on.


The Honey Householder 
    
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NW, Ohio
Posts: 608
 Cleaning out the old brood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeyman46408 
What do you do with the brood left in the hives??
By the time I go to shaking the bees in the end of Sept. Most of the queens have alreadly slow down production, and lack of food the bees cut most brood out. I bring all my hive body in and clean them up in the winter time. If their is any brood left I blow it out with air, before filling my frame with HFC.

Each year I try and learn something new or a better way of beekeeping. If I didn't I wouldn't bee in business.

Last year was the first year I let a guy come in and shake my bees from my boxes to his. He truck a whole load to FL. where he wintered them. No feedback on how he did, and what his cost was.

I would love to work a deal with someone in the south that would want the bees in the fall. For new bees in the spring.

Any takers,

Ron


  yes most interesting topic indeed  8-) 5 tons from the BROOD BOXS --RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 11, 2011, 09:43:23 pm
Like it or not, as in most endeavors, there are always some whose only motivation is maximum profit, little else matters.  Wall-Street is an extreme example (most of them care little beyond the days action or who was affected by their action) but beekeeping unfortunately, is not exempted from those same extremes some find neccessary to maximize profit.  We should not be surprized by human treatment of bees (or any other lifeform we deem inferior while in the pursuit of profit) :(

thomas

The goal for any business man is to make money for himself.  The greed factor increases as the business size increases.  Small businesses value their employees and in most cases their customers.  Large businesses only value money and could care less about their employees and customers.  They have PR departments to handle that.

But when you think about the bees in the northern regions all the bees in the fall are going to die through the winter so you are really only talking about the queen as a casualty.  Looking at the financial aspect of this shaking technique this beek has to build up a colony from package bees before he can harvest honey if I understand this correctly.  It would also seem that he will loose the spring flow.  This is profitable?
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 11, 2011, 11:46:02 pm
it was Ron who used the term clean up work of the brood boxes and told of the extra profit that was made by extracting they honey

Ron doesn't do a very good job of explaining things online, and he doesn't bother to correct folks when they try to start rumors. 

A good deal of the problem is that people do not understand how the bees configure a hive when they are ran in a single deep.  Almost all of the honey is stored above the excluder.  When Ron talks of taking of taking all the honey, he is talking about taking all of the supers above the excluder.  This is taking all the honey because there is no honey left in the broodnest. (or no significant amount)

The cleanup work of broodboxes is wintertime work at the shop; blowing dead bees out of brood combs, filling frames with syrup, etc.

or perhaps you can tell me about frames of honey that where compiled after the shake and what became of the honey frames-

What honey frames?  There aren't any.  If a frame has a little bit in the corners, they just leave it alone and fill the rest of the frame with syrup.

at any rate -the condition of the bees is something eles you have mentioned-is this a mite issue or just a issue of
 no winter bees being reared and a time frame issue


I don't know.  Mites did not appear to be a very big issue.  You might see a few when you broke open drone brood, but there didn't appear to be a heavy infestation, and you didn't see baby bees with chewed up wings.
I tried overwintering some of the same stock, with horrible success. (11 of 15 dead so far)  It appears these bees are good honey producers, but just can't hack our winters.
I had wondered if part of Ron's overwintering problems were due to chemically contaminated brood combs, from years past when they dumped chemicals into hives.  Given my poor overwintering with clean combs, I don't know how much of a factor it is.

also the price for the bees i know it is carved in stone in some post but do you have first hand no-ledge

It was X dollars for 800 many hives, but if less hives were shook they would pro-rate the hives that didn't get shook.  The bees sold for about the price of a bulk queen.

also wondered if you your self have given any thought as to obtaining these bees-or

After seeing the winter quality of these bees, I wouldn't want any more.
I wouldn't consider buying shake bees unless I could take them to someplace warmer to feed them out for the winter.

The old method was to take all the honey above the excluder, and the bees would starve within a couple days.  In the winter, clean up the boxes and blow the dead bees out of combs with an air compressor, and then fill the frames with syrup.

If they were my bees, I'd let them starve before I would shake them into someone else's equipment.  It's too much work, for too little pay.

yes most interesting topic indeed  cool 5 tons from the BROOD BOXS --RDY-B

Ron did NOT say he got 5 tons from the brood boxes.  Don't think that what you call a leftover pull and what he calls leftovers are the same thing.

He said he thought he'd get about 5 tons from the leftovers.  The 'leftovers' are not the brood boxes.  Leftovers are supers above excluders.  When you do the second pull, you leave the bees a super to store goldenrod or whatever in.  When you come back to shake, anything in that super is a leftover.  When you do the second pull, if you can't fit all the supers on the truck, you leave supers of honey on a couple hives.  Those supers are leftovers.  If you had a queen get above the excluder, you get her back down, but you leave the supers she got into.  When you come back to shake, the bees in the supers have hatched out, and those supers are leftovers.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 12, 2011, 01:35:15 am
I wondered about that -but at 800 colonies -in order to get the five ton from the brood boxes
 it would take about two full deep frames of honey from each one-but in a condition of near starvation
I can see that is not possible -dosent really matter the point of it is he takes all the honey -and five ton on the clean up is nothing to sneeze at-like i said information was in the mans own post as you have read-and i suppose if he cared how we interpret it he would have you make the posts-i enjoy Ron posts and think he dose a fine job of them-I have wondered about the comb as-well-I understand what you are saying and thats a whole nother can of worms I would not want to give the wrong impression about that -but i will take your word on the subject - There are ways to bring those bees through winter -some one could do it -but there is a cost to the methods-and a time frame to make it work-thank you for the explanations- :)  RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 12, 2011, 10:14:59 am
Corporate mindset ...

Workers are expendable, take the money and repeat the same program year after year.  Justification - it's business.

Corporations do it with humans so why not insects.

Here is the problem.  The guy that buys 15 hives worth of bees and looses 11 of them through the winter smartens up and decides it wasn't a good idea to buy those bees.  So he doesn't buy any next year.  So now the corporation has a harder sell to get rid of the shaken hives.  The profits now decrease and sooner or later he is blaming it on welfare and taxes.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Keith13 on March 12, 2011, 10:23:38 am
Corporate mindset ...

Workers are expendable, take the money and repeat the same program year after year.  Justification - it's business.

Corporations do it with humans so why not insects.

Here is the problem.  The guy that buys 15 hives worth of bees and looses 11 of them through the winter smartens up and decides it wasn't a good idea to buy those bees.  So he doesn't buy any next year.  So now the corporation has a harder sell to get rid of the shaken hives.  The profits now decrease and sooner or later he is blaming it on welfare and taxes.

or you could say the guy that buys 15 hives and profits 11 hives..sorry couldn't resist :evil:

Keith
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: fish_stix on March 12, 2011, 12:54:53 pm
Never ceases to amaze me how folks who don't own a business have all the answers for the business owners. Being a successful beekeeper and continuing for many years to make a living for his family, I sincerely doubt that Ron Householder is ever going to blame welfare and taxes for any shortcomings in his business. Like most of us who have owned our own business(es), he probably would look to himself for answers to problems. If my business fails it's more than likely due to something I didn't do or something I did wrong. Ron has a business that works and works well. And like me he probably doesn't give 2 hoots for what all you Naysayers and socialist mongers think! I run my business to make a profit so that I can continue to run my business. I don't hire people to make them wealthy, I hire them to work, so that someday I can realize my dreams to become financially independent. The workers can do the same thing I'm doing, all it it takes is some guts to step up and take a chance. Bees are bugs; you'll never succeed in humanizing them or making a pet out of them. They do what they do regardless of you; and then they die. Get over it.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 12, 2011, 01:15:30 pm
Quote
I sincerely doubt that Ron Householder is ever going to blame welfare and taxes for any shortcomings in his business.

Is he a large corporation?
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: asprince on March 12, 2011, 08:15:59 pm
Back on topic........

Installed my 20 packages today. The queens were Kona. Anyone have any experience with them?


Steve
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: iddee on March 12, 2011, 09:08:52 pm
Bought 85 nucs with kona queens last year. Got nothing but complaints from them.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: asprince on March 12, 2011, 09:10:58 pm
From who? Customers?
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: iddee on March 12, 2011, 09:14:35 pm
YES
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 12, 2011, 11:32:58 pm
like i said information was in the mans own post as you have read-and i suppose if he cared how we interpret it he would have you make the posts

Let me tell you a little secret.  When folks write ridiculous lies about things in his operation, Ron shakes his head and makes the comment that people don't have a clue about commercial beekeeping.  When I have asked Ron why he doesn't try to correct them, he says, "Why bother?  They're not going to understand."

i enjoy Ron posts and think he dose a fine job of them

That's why you thought he got 5 tons from extracting brood combs - and why he doesn't bother trying to correct you.

There are ways to bring those bees through winter -some one could do it -but there is a cost to the methods-and a time frame to make it work-thank you for the explanations


I look forward to you putting your money where your mouth is, and showing folks how it is done.

So now the corporation has a harder sell to get rid of the shaken hives.  The profits now decrease and sooner or later he is blaming it on welfare and taxes.

And in the real world, demand for package bees keeps increasing every year to replace those deadouts.  (The guy buying 15 hives is small potatoes.)  Beekeepers find those bees are really good honey producers, and they can make more money by taking all the honey.  The value of the honey they would normally leave for feed more than pays for a new package of bees next year.  Demand for packages increases, and profits continue to climb for the beekeeper and the package producer both.

I sincerely doubt that Ron Householder is ever going to blame welfare and taxes for any shortcomings in his business.


Ask him about the government getting involved in honey, and seeing the price drop to 38 cents a pound.

Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Kathyp on March 12, 2011, 11:49:04 pm
acebird, i am going to say this one time and i'm going to say it here.

i am sick to death of your corporation crap.  you don't have a clue.  we don't care.  speaking only for myself, i have had enough of it.  now...i might get slapped down for putting this here, but i have never met anyone as willing to constantly share their lack of knowledge at every opportunity.

i think you will be a good beekeeper, but put the other crap in the coffee house where we can continue to ignore it, or attempt to educate you when we have the patience for it.

 :imsorry:
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 13, 2011, 12:46:32 am
like i said information was in the mans own post as you have read-and i suppose if he cared how we interpret it he would have you make the posts

Let me tell you a little secret.  When folks write ridiculous lies about things in his operation, Ron shakes his head and makes the comment that people don't have a clue about commercial beekeeping.  When I have asked Ron why he doesn't try to correct them, he says, "Why bother?  They're not going to understand."

i enjoy Ron posts and think he dose a fine job of them

That's why you thought he got 5 tons from extracting brood combs - and why he doesn't bother trying to correct you.

There are ways to bring those bees through winter -some one could do it -but there is a cost to the methods-and a time frame to make it work-thank you for the explanations


I look forward to you putting your money where your mouth is, and showing folks how it is done.

So now the corporation has a harder sell to get rid of the shaken hives.  The profits now decrease and sooner or later he is blaming it on welfare and taxes.

And in the real world, demand for package bees keeps increasing every year to replace those deadouts.  (The guy buying 15 hives is small potatoes.)  Beekeepers find those bees are really good honey producers, and they can make more money by taking all the honey.  The value of the honey they would normally leave for feed more than pays for a new package of bees next year.  Demand for packages increases, and profits continue to climb for the beekeeper and the package producer both.

I sincerely doubt that Ron Householder is ever going to blame welfare and taxes for any shortcomings in his business.


Ask him about the government getting involved in honey, and seeing the price drop to 38 cents a pound.


  country-boy if i took all your beekeeping experience and stuck it up a nats ass it would be like a BB in a box car-RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 13, 2011, 11:51:09 am
Quote
The value of the honey they would normally leave for feed more than pays for a new package of bees next year.  Demand for packages increases, and profits continue to climb for the beekeeper and the package producer both.

Yes, I agree!  :shock:
But what happens when the customer gets these bees?  This business person hands down has indicated that his interest is in profits not the bees.  So they will get worked to death.  Chances are they will not survive overwintering.

Would you buy a truck that you know the contractor has beaten the crap out of it even if it was only a year old?

Feel better now Kathy?  Yoga would do you good.  Hummmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: asprince on March 13, 2011, 08:49:44 pm
Checked my newly hived packages today. I now have 10 4lb packages and 10 extra queens rather than 20 2 lb packages with queens. Why did they drift and abandon the queen?


Steve
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 13, 2011, 09:49:53 pm
what time of day did you dump them-I Install at dusk_RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: asprince on March 13, 2011, 09:54:35 pm
what time of day did you dump them-I Install at dusk_RDY-B

Mid afternoon.

Steve
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 13, 2011, 10:12:40 pm
 I just checked whether for fort valley and they indicated over 70 thats perfect
 flying temps for the bees-for me when temps are that warm best to do it as sun sets
almost dark-when temps are low and bees arnt flying your time frame would have been fine
another thing i take into consideration is the length of time the bees have been in the package
if less than 2 days they will be flying aggressively -you can still straighten out the mess at night dont wait to long -switch frames about and equalizes the -if nesasary move the boxes by switching light for heavy population for the next couple days -i hope they left enough bees to keep the queen warm--RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: asprince on March 13, 2011, 10:20:59 pm
The packages were shaken Friday and installed on Saturday. I think they needed more time before installation. We resplit them and took them to another location.

Steve
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 13, 2011, 10:23:39 pm
yep they must have been flying real good -hope the spilts hold -best of luck -RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 14, 2011, 01:35:46 am
country-boy if i took all your beekeeping experience and stuck it up a nats ass it would be like a BB in a box car-RDY-B

Then why are you asking me to explain beekeeping stuff that you do not understand? 

There are people with 10 years of experience in 1 year, and there are people with 6 months experience 20 times over.

But what happens when the customer gets these bees?  This business person hands down has indicated that his interest is in profits not the bees.  So they will get worked to death.

They were bought by another businessman, whose interests are in profits.  Bees get worked to death regardless what hive they live in.

Chances are they will not survive overwintering.

The businessman buying the bees must have thought differently if he was willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars.  The businessman also accepted the risk that the bees would die, and he would lose that money.  The businessman also accepted the potential reward that the bees would live, he could take them south for overwintering and to split them, and he could send 2-4 semis of bees to almonds at $60K per semi.

Would you buy a truck that you know the contractor has beaten the crap out of it even if it was only a year old?


It depends on the price.  At the right price, of course I would buy it.  For the wrong price, I wouldn't buy it. 

Why did they drift and abandon the queen?

What was your temperature?  Was it warm enough for the bees to fly?

If it was very warm and the bees were flying, it helps to use a clean fruit tree sprayer to get the bees sticky as you dump them in.  By the time they get themselves cleaned up, they are less likely to fly to the next hive.  Just be careful not to spray the queen cage with syrup so you don't kill the queen.

How long had the packages been made up?  If the package hadn't been made very long, the bees might not have accepted the new queen yet, and they flew to the hive that smelled most like their old queen.

For only a few hives, you can dump them in in the evening, right when you can feel the air pressure drop.  Just don't drag your feet because you are almost at the witching hour - just before dark and the bees will tear you up.  Anyone who has ever worked a hive too late in the evening understands this.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 14, 2011, 04:14:49 am
Then why are you asking me to explain beekeeping stuff that you do not understand?  


  I always talk with the apprentices-while they still know everything-- ;) RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: yantabulla on March 14, 2011, 04:56:36 am
Nice one Rdy-B :-D
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: hankdog1 on March 14, 2011, 08:39:20 am
some years like this one the bees are busting at the seams coming out of almonds-
 another practice that proves profitable is to sell nucs from half your bees -make honey from the other half-
 Almonds are great for early build up-but out of state keepers take a risk but they keep coming every year -
 the keeper we where speaking of dosent migrate -he runs static yards for honey and depopulates the hives for winter
 and replenishes them with packages in the spring-if he brought them to cali for almonds it would be easy 60-80 thousand
 profit after shiping-but every one has a management program-the colonies that are up for sale every year are weak from AFB-infested hives limped along with antibiotics-and many other problems-lots of out of state keepers sell them off as not to pay the cost to ship them back-and this gives them a chance to refresh there operation with clean wooden ware and bees-is the name of the outfit you speak of BELL HONEY if so i was told those bees are sold--RDY-B
http://img842.imageshack.us/i/1000212w.jpg/ (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/1000212w.jpg/)
Risk on the almonds?  Most of those guys don't have a choice they are just trying to make a living the best way they know how.


60 to 80K a truck load who the heck have you been talking to that runs that profit?  After you factor in trucking feeding and a number of other factors those numbers don't hold up.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Jim134 on March 14, 2011, 09:20:52 am

Steve............

Is this topic :?    How did at work out for you  :?

I have been busy for about a week cleaning up old boxes and painting. I have 20 2lb packages coming Friday. I am concerned with the package size. I have always purchased 3lb. packages. I will give each one four frames of drawn comb and they will be placed on canola that is just starting to bloom. Anyone else started 2lb packages?

Steve


:stayontopic:
 




    BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Jim134 on March 14, 2011, 10:26:30 am
Steve............
 

   Will you keep us update on you'r bees and now it is going  :?
   I hope you do.


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 14, 2011, 06:43:00 pm
some years like this one the bees are busting at the seams coming out of almonds-
 another practice that proves profitable is to sell nucs from half your bees -make honey from the other half-
 Almonds are great for early build up-but out of state keepers take a risk but they keep coming every year -
 the keeper we where speaking of dosent migrate -he runs static yards for honey and depopulates the hives for winter
 and replenishes them with packages in the spring-if he brought them to cali for almonds it would be easy 60-80 thousand
 profit after shiping-but every one has a management program-the colonies that are up for sale every year are weak from AFB-infested hives limped along with antibiotics-and many other problems-lots of out of state keepers sell them off as not to pay the cost to ship them back-and this gives them a chance to refresh there operation with clean wooden ware and bees-is the name of the outfit you speak of BELL HONEY if so i was told those bees are sold--RDY-B
http://img842.imageshack.us/i/1000212w.jpg/ (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/1000212w.jpg/)
Risk on the almonds?  Most of those guys don't have a choice they are just trying to make a living the best way they know how.


60 to 80K a truck load who the heck have you been talking to that runs that profit?  After you factor in trucking feeding and a number of other factors those numbers don't hold up.
thats not a truck load-thats figure 600-800 colinies-rent from $140-$155 per hive-if you dont profit$100
 after expenses of shiping then something went very wrong-- ;)  RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: hankdog1 on March 14, 2011, 07:44:34 pm
I'd say your right if you live there.  You were talking about trucking out of state different ball of wax all together.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Brian D. Bray on March 14, 2011, 09:46:13 pm
I'd say your right if you live there.  You were talking about trucking out of state different ball of wax all together.
Not necessarily so, I know so local beekeepers who truck their bees one way.  They spend about $25.00 per hive in trucking a semi full of them to the Almond Orchards,  they then obtain $125-$200 per hive in pollenation fees.  After the Almonds are over they sell the hives to other commercial or hobby beekeepers for urwards of $150-$200 per hive.

Even if you subtract a 20% brokers fee they are still pocketing a good amount of cash for a minimum amount of effort.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 14, 2011, 09:53:18 pm
I'd say your right if you live there.  You were talking about trucking out of state different ball of wax all together.
give or take 500 to a load--give or take $7000 each way-thats $14000 to ship the bees
 rent  at $140 per hive -thats $70000-for the rental -subtract $14000 for shiping--gives you $56000
puts you at $112 per hive -it is doable easly-thats the big atraction theres money in it and like anything else
if it didnt pay it wouldnt get done-- 8-)  RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 15, 2011, 01:40:20 am
I always talk with the apprentices-while they still know everything--

There is a difference between talking to apprentices and asking teachers to share their knowledge with you.  (They become a teacher because you ask them for knowledge.)  Show your teachers due respect, or they may decide you are an ill-mannered student who can suffer the consequences of their insolence.

thats not a truck load-thats figure 600-800 colinies-rent from $140-$155 per hive-if you dont profit$100
 after expenses of shiping then something went very wrong--


So how many colonies do YOU send to almonds, shipped in from out of state, and how much profit do you have?

$40K in feed, $20K in transport down south for the winter, to almonds, and then back to Ohio, 20% broker fee - right there you are under your $100 profit at $155 for 800 hives...

That's assuming you can get paid.  I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who sent hives to almonds - he was supposed to get paid half when they went in, and the last half when they got pulled.  He was getting ready to go out and pull his bees because he hasn't seen the first check yet.

give or take 500 to a load

396 doubles to a semi.

give or take $7000 each way-thats $14000 to ship the bees

But you were talking about the beekeeper from Ohio who runs his colonies as singles for honey production.  If you want to go to almonds, you have to ship down south to feed them out for the winter, then another shipping fee to haul them to almonds, and then a 3rd shipping fee to get them back home.  That's $20K+ shipping.

rent  at $140 per hive -thats $70000-for the rental -subtract $14000 for shiping--gives you $56000
puts you at $112 per hive


Even using your theoretical numbers, you forgot the 20% broker fees - that's another $28 a hive on $140 pollination, dropping you down to $84 a hive.  And you still haven't bought any feed, patties, fumagillan, etc...

How many hives do you send to almond pollination again?

if it didnt pay it wouldnt get done

If it paid as good as you think it does, beekeepers from east of the Mississippi would have been sending bees for a long time.  As it is, they only began sending bees recently because the price finally got high enough for them to be able to make a reasonable profit.

Even if you subtract a 20% brokers fee they are still pocketing a good amount of cash for a minimum amount of effort.

So where do they get all their drawn comb to replace what is sold?  That's a hidden cost.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 15, 2011, 01:48:10 am
 Country-boy you are of a poisinos nature and are inflammatory in your posts
 you keep peeing on the camp fire -and you have peed on everyone else's camp fire
 your continuos axe grinding gets tiresome -RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 15, 2011, 02:08:21 am
Your continuous misinformation gets tiresome.

If dispelling unrealistic fantasies is peeing on a campfire, then I guess I am guilty of that.

Honesty really is the best policy.  If someone doesn't know what they are talking about, I would hope they have the wisdom to keep quiet.  It is better to appear an idiot, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.  When people don't know what they are talking about and they spread misinformation, they remove all doubt.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: rdy-b on March 15, 2011, 03:18:36 am

  Country-boy you are of a poisinos nature and are inflammatory in your posts
 you keep peeing on the camp fire -and you have peed on everyone else's camp fire
 your continuos axe grinding gets tiresome -RDY-B
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: KD4MOJ on March 15, 2011, 10:55:40 am
WOW! This sure has been an interesting thread!   :-D

...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: T Beek on March 15, 2011, 11:21:36 am
Really?  What's being learned or taught?  Its been reminding me of an old proverb for some time now;

"Give rest to your tongue more often than to your hands"

thomas
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Jim134 on March 15, 2011, 11:32:31 am
"Give rest to your tongue more often than to your hands"

thomas


LOL



  BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 15, 2011, 11:53:45 am
People come from different backgrounds and have different viewpoints.  Readers get to choose which viewpoint t makes sense to them.  I think there is a lot to learn.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Scadsobees on March 15, 2011, 01:42:16 pm

It's amusing how other people think they know more about how others operate than people doing the work there.  Who cares about facts when you have folks spreading misinformation?

It is amusing when somebody who's been on this forum for only a month or so is quick to denigrate members who have been here for far long over issues which they basically agree on.

Rather than a simple conversation discussing differences, this type of paragraph (which started it) builds rifts, not understanding.  I find it most unwelcome and causes the forum to be almost unreadable.

rdy-b, don't bother trying to feed the trolls....
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 15, 2011, 03:48:55 pm
Quote
It is better to appear an idiot, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.


You seem to like this phrase but let me tell you why is doesn’t work for me.  I know you don’t want to hear it but I’m gona tell ya anyway.  When you open your mouth and remove all doubt someone will be more than happy to tell you where you are wrong and take pleasure in it.  This happens especially on forums but will also happen in normal conversation.  My point is you have just picked that person’s brain, sucked every bit of information about the subject matter that he/she knows in an extremely short period of time.  They will go to all ends to prove you did or said something wrong.  The other option is to remain completely quiet and spend the time it takes to be accepted.  You hope along the way that the information you seek will come your way and you have not made the mistake of listening to the wrong person.  The fastest way to learn something is to become involved in a conversation and let your ignorance show.  It sometimes leaves you wide open for verbal abuse but I can assure you it is the fastest way to learn something.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: T Beek on March 15, 2011, 03:54:59 pm
Jeesh; I'm going out to visit my bees 8-)

thomas
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: KD4MOJ on March 15, 2011, 04:32:07 pm
I've misplaced my viewpoints somewhere.... anyone seen 'em?   :-D

...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Jim134 on March 15, 2011, 05:00:19 pm
People come from different backgrounds and have different viewpoints.  Readers get to choose which viewpoint t makes sense to them.  I think there is a lot to learn.

Acebird ...

 I know you don’t want to hear it but I’m gona tell ya anyway. You need to learn from the bees not my viewpoint or chooses.....
 I know there is a lot to learn about bees.........



     BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)

        
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 15, 2011, 05:17:44 pm
Quote
You need to learn from bees


I hear them buzzing but I can't understand a word they are saying.  If it were that easy there wouldn't be beeks still learning 10-15 years down the road.  People learn from people or deductive reasoning.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: T Beek on March 15, 2011, 05:36:02 pm
Quote
You need to learn from bees


I hear them buzzing but I can't understand a word they are saying.  If it were that easy there wouldn't be beeks still learning 10-15 years down the road.  People learn from people or deductive reasoning.

Try being quiet for a little while :-D
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Brian D. Bray on March 15, 2011, 09:45:12 pm
Quote
You need to learn from bees


I hear them buzzing but I can't understand a word they are saying.  If it were that easy there wouldn't be beeks still learning 10-15 years down the road.  People learn from people or deductive reasoning.

If you can't hear what the bees are trying to tell you, you aren't looking hard enough.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Countryboy on March 15, 2011, 11:25:25 pm
It is amusing when somebody who's been on this forum for only a month or so is quick to denigrate members who have been here for far long over issues which they basically agree on.

How long someone has been a member is irrelevant to real world knowledge.  There is a big difference between a new forum member with actual real world knowledge, and someone who has been a forum member for a longer period of time, with no actual real world knowledge of what they are talking about, which is why they make preposterous claims that are outright lies.


Rather than a simple conversation discussing differences, this type of paragraph (which started it) builds rifts, not understanding.  I find it most unwelcome and causes the forum to be almost unreadable.


When people make comments that are flat out lies, it builds rifts, and not understanding.  I find it most unwelcome and harms forum quality.

My point is you have just picked that person’s brain, sucked every bit of information about the subject matter that he/she knows in an extremely short period of time.

When people possess true knowledge, you can't learn everything they know on a subject in a short period of time.

They will go to all ends to prove you did or said something wrong.  The other option is to remain completely quiet and spend the time it takes to be accepted.

What does acceptance have to do with anything?  Being accepted by others does not mean you are learning anything from them.

If someone tries to show everyone how ignorant they are, people will point out how they do not know what they are talking about.  If one shows a willingness to learn, only then can others teach them what they do not know.  There is a big difference between being shown your ignorance, and having someone teach you things that you did not know.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: Acebird on March 16, 2011, 09:57:49 am
Quote
When people possess true knowledge, you can't learn everything they know on a subject in a short period of time.
In a forum layout what they know it cast in print.  As a newbie, you can only absorb so much and that is dependent on the individual.  The individual can always refer back to the printed words and gain further knowledge.  In some cases it is best not to learn “everything they know on a subject”.  I think that fits very well with bees.

Quote
Being accepted by others does not mean you are learning anything from them.
My point exactly.

Quote
There is a big difference between being shown your ignorance, and having someone teach you things that you did not know.
Ah there is where you are wrong.  There are a multiple ways of learning.  You are trying to force your ways on someone else.  It doesn’t always work.  May work for you though.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: luvin honey on March 17, 2011, 10:20:59 pm
"Like it or not, as in most endeavors, there are always some whose only motivation is maximum profit, little else matters.  Wall-Street is an extreme example (most of them care little beyond the days action or who was affected by their action) but beekeeping unfortunately, is not exempted from those same extremes some find neccessary to maximize profit.  We should not be surprized by human treatment of bees (or any other lifeform we deem inferior while in the pursuit of profit)"


And sometimes it's not about greed but just about keeping the operation alive for another year. As a small farmer married to a farmer, I know how tiny the red versus black margins can be.
Title: Re: Busy busy busy!
Post by: T Beek on March 18, 2011, 06:36:19 am
Agreed; Been there, done that ;) cept, don't know what greed has to do with just surviving, the two don't seem to belong in the same sentence.

thomas