Combining because of exponential hive numbers

[tillie]

I now have eight hives and in my Atlanta backyard, this seems excessive - both because of the bees foraging ability and because of space.  I learned in the Journeyman course I took at Young Harris that the research of CI Farrar proved that the strongest hives make the most honey.

My first swarm hive has been here since April 1 and still hasn't moved up out of the deep box it was originally put in.  The bees there seem mean - I've only opened the hive a couple of times and have gotten head butted so much that I needed my smoker (something I rarely use) and have gotten stung.  The remedy for mean bees is often to requeen.

So the swarm I got yesterday seems energetic and had more bees in it than the other two swarms I kept.  I'm thinking that I'll see if the swarm establishes itself as a hive and then combine it with Hyron, my first swarm hive.  If I do that, I'll have to kill the queen in Hyron. 

I've never killed the queen (by choice) Matter of fact, last year is the first year I actually could find the queen.....

1.  What is the best way to do it?  (Assuming I can actually find her AND pick her up)
2.  How long should I wait to see if this new swarm establishes well?  I know I have to wait to make sure the queen is functioning - laying, good patterns - a month? three weeks?

Linda T in Atlanta needing the Wizard of Oz for courage

[JP]

Linda, I would wait until you can decipher what kind of queen she will be. Her laying pattern will be the key.

You could take the other queen and put her in some container or ziplock and then in the freezer if you don't want to smoosh her and then transfer her to a vial with alcohol and use her for lure.


...JP

[Ross]

When you get a really mean hive you won't have any trouble killing the queen.  You'll enjoy it.  That hive isn't particularly mean, but it isn't productive.  That could be do to a number of reasons, but if other nearby hives are doing better, blaming the queen maybe in order.  Combining to make stronger hives before a flow can be a good strategy.  You can always split after the flow if you want more hives again.

[Kathyp]

i dropped mine in a little jar of alcohol.  pretty much killed her instantly and i saved her in it  for later.

[Moonshae]

If you have a hard time catching her, a sharp jab with a hive tool will do the trick, too.

[tillie]

I know I've got to learn to do this as a beekeeper - going forward I will have to kill a queen, but I think I'll feel sick for doing it.  I kill bees by accident all the time - it's the on purpose part that gets me and the fact that I have to catch a specific bee.  Now that I am using nitrile gloves instead of the clumsy leather ones, my dexterity ought to be better - it's just my courage and the moral dilemma that's getting to me.

Maybe by the time I determine if the new swarm actually has a queen and she is laying well, I'll have gained some confidence...... :roll:

Linda T, a chicken in Atlanta

[Michael Bush]

I drop them in alcohol.

[BenC]

If it's really that hard, then try telling yourself that the queen is not an organism but the whole hive is the organism.  That is how social insects work.  One component (queen) of that organism has gone bad and must be fixed.  Hope nobody takes this the wrong way and gets offended but play Dr and look at that bad queen like a cancer cell and eliminate it.  You've already got the nitrile gloves...

[Kimbrell]

BenC is right.  If you don't kill the queen, you are putting the rest of the hive at a disadvantage.  Sacrifice the good of the one for the good of the many...

[tillie]

I love this forum - all of the help is generous and makes sense - I'll wait until the new swarm shows that the queen is laying well (a good pattern). 

Then I think I'll look at the first swarm hive like BenC said - that the hive is an organism as a whole of which the queen is a part that needs to be removed for the good of the whole - (I've always liked utiliarianism - hee hee) - and I laughed at:

You've already got the nitrile gloves...

I think I'll use alcohol to do her in, like Michael and kathyp do, and as hard as it is for me to pick up a bee (dexterity wise - even with the nitrile gloves!), she's likely to die from my efforts to pick her up regardless of how I think I'd find it easiest to kill her.

You all are the best!  Thanks for all the helpful ways to think about this.

Linda T

[Cindi]

Linda, killing off a queen was one of the hardest things that I have ever done too.  It goes 100% against my grain.  But like Ben and Ross both told you, you must think of the colony as the most important thing, the queen is destroying/holding back the colony, she is not doing what she is supposed to be doing.  The is the ugly way to look at it, but if you can look at it in this way, you will kill her with a smile on your face.  Believe that or not.  It totally changes the way that you look at this gal, when you think that you have years for this colony to carry on, and you want to work with them, you want the best gal for this job, not one that you have a hard time working with, and so on.

When I kill the queens, and I have had to do this several times, I think to myself, "you tried, you failed, your colony is suffering" it become easy.  Do as Michael says, a little tiny container with alcohol in it, drop her in, she dies within seconds, you must think of her as an insect, take away that human emotion that is holding you back.  Beautiful day in this great life we all live and share.  Cindi

[randydrivesabus]

and as hard as it is for me to pick up a bee (dexterity wise - even with the nitrile gloves!)

forceps

[Michael Bush]

Honestly, though, I seldom kill a queen.  I usually put her in a nuc and keep her handy.  Eventually I either give her away or she gets replaced.  Come fall I might get rid of her to combine.