Are Topbar Hives Illegal in Australia ?

[Chiefman]

I was going to look at building a Topbar hive then i came across this

http://www.honeybee.org.au/pdf/RTE2217A.pdf
on Page 23 it states "By law, in Australia all honeybees must be kept in hives with removable
frames. "

Are Topbar Hives Illegal in Australia ? This is a little bit unfair to TBH keepers as you can remove every bar to do an inspection of the comb and you can basically pull the whole hive apart if you need to do a thorough inspection.

What would be needed to amend this stupid "law" ?

[yantabulla]

Top bar hives are not illegal so long as the frames are removable.

The law is not stupid.

Beekeepers who are unable to recognise and inspect for disease are foolish and iresponsible

NSW law below.


Apiaries Act 1985 No 16
Current version for 1 January 2014 to date (accessed 4 December 2014 at 23:04)
Part 4Division 1Section 14
<< page >>
14   Bees to be kept in frame hives

(1)  A person shall not keep bees, or allow bees to be kept in an apiary, except in a frame hive.
Maximum penalty: 10 penalty units.

(2)  Where an inspector finds that the bee combs in the broodnest of a beehive containing frames cannot, without cutting, be separately removed from the hive for examination, the inspector may direct the beekeeper to transfer the bees in the hive to a frame hive within a specified period, and the beekeeper shall comply with the direction within that period.
(3)  Where bees are kept or have become established in a hive other than a frame hive, an inspector may:
(a)  direct the beekeeper to transfer to a frame hive within a specified period the bees, honey and bee combs contained in the first-mentioned hive, or
(b)  destroy the hive in which the bees are kept or have become established and the bees, apiary products and appliances on or within that hive.
(4)  If any person fails within the specified period to carry out any directions given by an inspector under subsection (2) or (3) in relation to a beehive, the inspector or a person authorised by the inspector in writing, may enter on the land in which the hive is located and may destroy the hive, and the bees, apiary products and appliances on or within the hive.
(5)  Any person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to carry out directions given by an inspector under subsection (2) or (3) within the specified period is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a penalty not exceeding 5 penalty units.
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[Chiefman]

Top bar hives are not illegal so long as the frames are removable.

The law is not stupid.

Beekeepers who are unable to recognise and inspect for disease are foolish and iresponsible

NSW law below.


Apiaries Act 1985 No 16
Current version for 1 January 2014 to date (accessed 4 December 2014 at 23:04)
Part 4Division 1Section 14
<< page >>
14   Bees to be kept in frame hives

(1)  A person shall not keep bees, or allow bees to be kept in an apiary, except in a frame hive.
Maximum penalty: 10 penalty units.

So is a top bar with no sides or bottom the same thing as a frame? Are the inspectors expecting to see the comb fully surrounded by wood?
I agree that the combs need to be inspected individually for disease but to restrict beeking only to Langstroth hives is not a fair law

[iddee]

The inspector needs to see the eggs, larva, capped pupa, stored pollen, and honey. That is the purpose of the regulation. TBH are fine for that.

[kalium]

 I guess the wording is perhaps unfortunate in that it says 'frame', and perhaps that particular word is very langstroth specific (although I don't know that for a fact).

[Jeanette]

A few months ago, beekeeper Adrian Iodice (Bega Valley, New South Wales) got his name in an online newspaper for keeping Kenyan top bar hives. The article was all positive news (no mention of legal battles). Adrian is a member of the newly started Bega Valley Amateur Beekeepers Association. I gleaned the association's phone number from another news article: (02) 6493 2529. Maybe give him a call?

http://www.begadistrictnews.com.au/story/2352163/natural-beekeeping-with-kenyan-top-bar-hives/
http://thecrossing.thebegavalley.org.au/the-crossing-bermagui/testimonials/media-articles/

[Richard M]

I guess the wording is perhaps unfortunate in that it says 'frame', and perhaps that particular word is very langstroth specific (although I don't know that for a fact).

I'd think it's a frame (being a solid supporting structure), whether it comprises a single member or 4 glued/nailed together in the more conventional sense, in the same way that a roof frame can comprise a truss, or in a skillion roof, a single rafter. The operative wording here is "separately removed".

It's actually quite appropriately worded and it's performance based, rather than being prescriptive.

[jayj200]

what is a penalty unit

[yantabulla]

One penalty unit = $110.00

[Richard M]

One penalty unit = $110.00

You've got it easy, a PU is $130 in Tas.

[iddee]

Have you seen the law in writing?
Does it say removable frames, or removable combs?
Here in my state, I think it says removable combs.

[yantabulla]

Apiaries Act 1985 No 16
Current version for 1 January 2014 to date (accessed 4 December 2014 at 23:04)
Part 4Division 1Section 14
<< page >>
14   Bees to be kept in frame hives

(1)  A person shall not keep bees, or allow bees to be kept in an apiary, except in a frame hive.
Maximum penalty: 10 penalty units.

(2)  Where an inspector finds that the bee combs in the broodnest of a beehive containing frames cannot, without cutting, be separately removed from the hive for examination, the inspector may direct the beekeeper to transfer the bees in the hive to a frame hive within a specified period, and the beekeeper shall comply with the direction within that period.
(3)  Where bees are kept or have become established in a hive other than a frame hive, an inspector may:
(a)  direct the beekeeper to transfer to a frame hive within a specified period the bees, honey and bee combs contained in the first-mentioned hive, or
(b)  destroy the hive in which the bees are kept or have become established and the bees, apiary products and appliances on or within that hive.
(4)  If any person fails within the specified period to carry out any directions given by an inspector under subsection (2) or (3) in relation to a beehive, the inspector or a person authorised by the inspector in writing, may enter on the land in which the hive is located and may destroy the hive, and the bees, apiary products and appliances on or within the hive.
(5)  Any person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to carry out directions given by an inspector under subsection (2) or (3) within the specified period is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a penalty not exceeding 5 penalty units.
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[prestonpaul]

Has anyone thought to ring their states apiary inspector and ask them?

[Chiefman]

Has anyone thought to ring their states apiary inspector and ask them?

Your ears were burning  :-P

So the deal is, they are perfectly legal in NSW. I got this first hand from someone that works at the NSW DPI The Bega Bee club ( as mentioned in the post above by Jeanette ) have TBH's which are endorsed by the NSW DPI

http://www.begadistrictnews.com.au/story/2352163/natural-beekeeping-with-kenyan-top-bar-hives/
http://thecrossing.thebegavalley.org.au/the-crossing-bermagui/testimonials/media-articles/

I think TBHs may be illegal in SA only from what I was told.
I still think the that line in the law   :police: needs to be clarified to stop the uncertainty.