Town says I can't keep bees

[johnnybigfish]

I like the Tlynn post about begging and stuff! :)
Just "Do it if you want to do it"...I mean Its probably not a felony, and its not a big deal unless someone gets stung and gets sick or Gripes about it. I think this crime would be in the category of something like checking your mailbox in your underwear. I do it all the time! :-D
your friend,
john

[CVBees]

Ok so much to reply about... first I asked because I was hoping but not really hoping someone else might of run across a similar situation and I did get a few ideas about how to handle it so far thanks to this post.  Yeah for us! 

- I wanted to start with 2 hives and of course expand to possibly 6 as a max I don't think I would have time for much more than that.  Then again we (mother nature and I) will have to see about that its all up to the girls if they want to expand for me. 

- I am trying to find the owner/operator of the ag-preserve across the street so I can do just that.. set up there, but I am not sure of any shades what-so-ever for the hives and the wind whips wicked down the mountain often.

-  I will find out what statute/ordinance they are discussing whether its a zoning issue or other and then choose my angle of approach.  I had not thought of that.  ;)

- I am going to make a call tomorrow and get some answers .. will post asap.  Thanks again all for the  assist and the haggling.. 8)

[Rodni73]

Interesting discussion. Challenge them in court if there is no ordinance or the law is blurry or unclear. 

I lived in my town for 20 years and through it all, experience have taught me a single rule: Almost every municipal employee is an enemy unless they prove otherwise.  Don’t get me wrong, some of them are honest and try hard to serve with honor and uphold the law. I know about 5 of them and I greatly respect and admire them! The rest…Lord have mercy  :-X! They do anything in their power to disrupt your project, hurt your business, and just make life miserable.  I long to the days when we lived poor but happy farmers in the country and cuss the sad day when mum and pop's moved us into the Godless suburbs.


be a beek or die tryin!

[marliah]

  By the way, why did you ask?

+1!!  Never ask permission for a God-given right.  My personal philosophy at any rate.  8-)  That being said, zoning & land-use laws, etc., are truly thru-the-looking glass!  So much for Constitutional Due-Process! (no jury of your peers to decide the guilt/innocence of, or nullify the issue). 

Best of luck!

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree on that one.

I asked my town about having chickens on my 1/3 acre lot (FAR more than enough space) and they said no, now I am fighting the city for the right to have fresh eggs. Utter BS. I didn't ask about bees, I just got them, and if anyone gives me a hard time I'll let them know how fast the world would starve if everyone was a close minded as them :p

Oh and btw, I have chickens anyway they are just "indoor" birds. They live in my barn, err garage. ;)

Couldn't you just get them and hide them behind your house or something? how would they even know they are there? A person walking/driving by would have no way of telling they aren't just wild bees if they can't see the hives. ;)

[derrick1p1]

Contact your local beeks pabeekeepers  Then I would check out your city ordinance carrollvalley.  I did a little of my own investigating and didn't see anything in there prohibiting the keeping of honey bees.  Only intensive agriculture. 

I would get them (bees that is).  Then look into getting legislation allowing them (if you need want to).  No need to get permission for something that isn't prohibited.  This is not your livelihood, just a hobby.  Also, check with your state.  There may be a state law that prohibits any city/county from prohibiting beekeeping.

Best of luck!

[tlynn]

  By the way, why did you ask?

+1!!  Never ask permission for a God-given right.  My personal philosophy at any rate.  8-)  That being said, zoning & land-use laws, etc., are truly thru-the-looking glass!  So much for Constitutional Due-Process! (no jury of your peers to decide the guilt/innocence of, or nullify the issue). 

Best of luck!

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree on that one.

I asked my town about having chickens on my 1/3 acre lot (FAR more than enough space) and they said no, now I am fighting the city for the right to have fresh eggs. Utter BS. I didn't ask about bees, I just got them, and if anyone gives me a hard time I'll let them know how fast the world would starve if everyone was a close minded as them :p

Oh and btw, I have chickens anyway they are just "indoor" birds. They live in my barn, err garage. ;)

Couldn't you just get them and hide them behind your house or something? how would they even know they are there? A person walking/driving by would have no way of telling they aren't just wild bees if they can't see the hives. ;)

Yes, precisely my point.  Unless changing the ordinance/statute is a battle I want to fight, I don't have any reason to inform the government of my upcoming personal activities.  Nothing good can come of it. 

Libertarians believe anybody should be able to do what they want as long as they don't infringe on anybody else's rights or hurt anybody else.  I think a few colonies of bees in your back yard easily passes that test!

[klesage121]

I live in a great community.  This area is partly lots of farmers.  I heard a story told by a worker at one of the windows at the court houses annex.  She was telling about some city dwellers moving up to this area of the lake you know the ritzy typers and they started complaining about the pigs and the chickens and about they wanted them gone cause it braught there property values down.  Well needless to say the county told them tough they were here first and if you don't like it sell and move out, so I continued to ask my question and she said what ever you want to do is fine there is no zoning in the county and I said but and she said as she walked off doesn't matter we don't care.  My neighbors are great guess why,  oooohhhhh thats right they just about all have gardens LOL.

[Brian D. Bray]

Great environment to get started pushing the issue.  Spell out how honeybees are going extinct and there are only a few left and you want to save the environment by getting some bees.

Save the bees, save the planet!  Make your town a green town!

Even if you may think it is all bunk...the ends justifies the means, right?

Nectar sources...the bees can find plentiful sources around!  Trees, bushes, whatever.  May not be enough for 100's of hives, but there is more than enough for 5+ hives!!!

Rick

Shouldn't that read, "Save the Chearleader, save the world?"  Beekeepers are ecological Heros.  Cry the CCD blues and get an exemption, waver, or variance.

Sorry for the correction but I dislike when people do this. It's Apis mellifera.
Genus name is always capital, and the species name is always lower case. If you're going to abbreviate, it's A. mellifera but this is only appropriate after the full genus name has been spelled out once. This way people can talk about Apis whatever and Apis whoever and not be confused when they're abbreviate to Apis w. and Apis w. Sorry it just annoys me.

And what chaps my hide is someone who gets annoyed over insignificant matters.  Come on, none of us on this forum are perfect, let's not worry about the inconsequental and focus on the help and sharing that this forum is all about.

[mike s]

I asked my city as well - because my neighbors are very close in distance. I contacted the city who put me in touch with Animal Control. I asked the secretary to fax over the laws on beekeeping. I am able to keep up to 10 hives - as long as they are 150 yards or further away from all structures. I got the neighbors permission (signed and dated), and then requested the permit. The guy in charge was trying to discourage me - but by then I knew my rights!

My advise would be to get any written codes applying to beekeeping and persue permits afterwards. In a last ditch effort - contact the local media - and let them know how you are trying to help the declining bee population, and your city enforcement is not helping. Sounds like a great feel good story to me! Good Luck - Mike

[Gena]

The owner of the preserve will be listed either at the tax assessors office and/or where the deed is filed - mortgages and conveyances at the county clerk of court or there abouts. 
   The mayor is on my 'honey route' and the city calls me to remove the bees from the water meters and other places - but my bees are country dwellers. 
    Good luck, Gena

[CVBees]

Well God Save the Queen,


  All it took was a little face time with the Borough manager, and pouring over the ordinances.  Like I said before he heard from the previous person in his position they were not allowed.  So I said "show me"  and he could not prove or even show me what he said on the phone about "farming practices not allowed in residentially zoned areas"   I told him I will starting my hives as soon as possible although that isn't true will wait till next spring I want to do it right.  Plus start up costs. 

  I followed up with the fact that PA requires all apiaries to be inspected and registered and that they could check up on me that way and gave them the address phone number of the state inspector.  I will send off my permits asap.  Thanks for the advice and support all!

  Very Very excited to be a bee-keeper soon

[JP]

Well God Save the Queen,


  All it took was a little face time with the Borough manager, and pouring over the ordinances.  Like I said before he heard from the previous person in his position they were not allowed.  So I said "show me"  and he could not prove or even show me what he said on the phone about "farming practices not allowed in residentially zoned areas"   I told him I will starting my hives as soon as possible although that isn't true will wait till next spring I want to do it right.  Plus start up costs. 

  I followed up with the fact that PA requires all apiaries to be inspected and registered and that they could check up on me that way and gave them the address phone number of the state inspector.  I will send off my permits asap.  Thanks for the advice and support all!

  Very Very excited to be a bee-keeper soon

I'm glad you had the chance to varify your position on keeping them, you will have lots of enjoyment from your bees, good luck!!!


...JP

[BeeHopper]

That is great news, you win, we win, everybody wins, lets hope the town has no hard feelings  :-D :-D :-D

[SgtMaj]

Sorry for the correction but I dislike when people do this. It's Apis mellifera.
Genus name is always capital, and the species name is always lower case. If you're going to abbreviate, it's A. mellifera but this is only appropriate after the full genus name has been spelled out once. This way people can talk about Apis whatever and Apis whoever and not be confused when they're abbreviate to Apis w. and Apis w. Sorry it just annoys me.

If memory serves me (and it often doesn't), the species should also be in italics... so it should be Apis mellifera, or A. mellifera if abreviated.

[NWIN Beekeeper]

There is something to be said about verifying before doing.

Everyone can exclaim that they have a right to beekeep.
And you do, as long as it doesn't violate the law.

If you have a problem with a law, then work to get it changed.
Remember it is US and our represenatives that make the laws.
And it is US and our petition that makes the changes to those laws.

By just doing, you don't assert a right by violating a law.
You assert a right by making sure the law preserves your liberty.
And sometimes the absence of a law provides the liberty.

If you just do, you raise the strong potential to cause a conflict.
And if the law is on the books and its opposing you, you will loose.
It is much better to research and preserve first.

The outcome of this could have become much worse.
The beekeeper could have made noise that would have motivated someone to outlaw residential bees.
Beekeeping could have become a ag-zone only practice.
I think eventually it could become that way nation-wide if we don't mind ourselves properly.
Right-to-farm legislation and other means only protect so much.
We need to be better educated to prevent unreasonible legislation.
Shotguns in hand and "you ain't gonna keep me from doing it" isn't demonstrating much of an education.

-Jeff

[Michael Bush]

No one can prevent you from doing anything if there is no law specifying that you cannot.  Of course you have to ask what the fight is worth.  I'd force them to make the move, myself.

[SgtMaj]

There is something to be said about verifying before doing.

Everyone can exclaim that they have a right to beekeep.
And you do, as long as it doesn't violate the law.

If you have a problem with a law, then work to get it changed.
Remember it is US and our represenatives that make the laws.
And it is US and our petition that makes the changes to those laws.

By just doing, you don't assert a right by violating a law.
You assert a right by making sure the law preserves your liberty.
And sometimes the absence of a law provides the liberty.

If you just do, you raise the strong potential to cause a conflict.
And if the law is on the books and its opposing you, you will loose.
It is much better to research and preserve first.

The outcome of this could have become much worse.
The beekeeper could have made noise that would have motivated someone to outlaw residential bees.
Beekeeping could have become a ag-zone only practice.
I think eventually it could become that way nation-wide if we don't mind ourselves properly.
Right-to-farm legislation and other means only protect so much.
We need to be better educated to prevent unreasonible legislation.
Shotguns in hand and "you ain't gonna keep me from doing it" isn't demonstrating much of an education.

-Jeff

I agree, and I think he did just that.