Tips on driving bees (by pounding the hive with sticks)

[ugcheleuce]

[cross-posted]

Hello everyone

I have a little problem with one of my hives that may require me to drive bees for the first time.

Problem:

My hive consists of two brood boxes (and some honey supers), but only the top brood box has frames, and the combs extend almost entirely into the bottom box. I want to cut off the bottom comb (so that I end up with neat and tidy frames) but I don't want to lose all those bees.

[I know that I'll lose a lot of brood in the process, but that's unavoidable -- my priority now is to make the hive inspectable again. I can try to salvage the comb at least, by freezing it and putting it into empty frames later, but that is not my primary goal either.]

What's more, the hives are about 2 feet off the ground. Due to the size of those combs and the height of the hive I don't think I'll be successful in shaking off the bees back into the hive (even if I remove the supers).

[The queen is not marked and I may not be able to find her. If she dies, it will be unfortunate but not the end of the world.]

I only know about driving bees in theory, so let me share my thoughts with you and you can tell me which is the lesser hairbrained idea.

Options:

Option 1 is to take off the supers, put an empty box on top of the two brood boxes (with the lid on), and then drive the bees up into the hive by pounding the bottom box. Then separate the two brood boxes from each other and raise the upper boxes with pegs, and then use a wire to cut the comb. Some of the cut combs will not stick to the hive walls and will drop down onto the bottom board.

I'm not confident that the bees will leave the comb in the bottom box, even if it is pounded, because it contains a lot of brood. And because the frames in the upper box will have lifted upwards, the brace comb in the bottom box will no longer be fully attached to the walls, which means that the comb might sag irregularly and crush many of the bees (including, possibly, the queen).

Option 2 is to remove the supers, and then lift out the frames one by one, and cut off the comb, and put the cut-off comb into an empty hive nearby, taking care not to crush bees between the combs (there will be lots of bees on the cut comb).

I can create an improvised "skep" by attaching a dark towel to the top of an empty brood box, using elastic bands. I then place the skep on top of the box that has the cut-off combs in it (at an angle, so that light enters into the bottom box), and then I drive the bees into the towelled brood box, and then carry that box to the original hive and shake them off in one swift bang.

Questions:

Which of these options do you think will be most successful? Am I right that the bees will be very hesitant to leave the bottom box in option 1, due to the fact that they'll have to leave brood behind? Have you ever cut comb with a wire, as in option 1, and is it as easy as it looks in my imagination?

Thanks
Samuel

[amun-ra]

Get another box take off the top and use the bottom brood as a split requeen in a few days if you need to share the honey between them and you have another hive I opened a double brood box here today and I have never seen so many bees on the hoof here we have about 12 hours of sunlight and the bees fly all day daytime temps are 26 c so they go all the time spring is next week and I dont think I will have enough woodware as i got my first swarm last friday  may have to go back to drinking booze at least I can stop that bees I can't seem to get out of my system  HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEE
 

[iddee]

I would pull the outer frames that have no brood, move the brood frames to the outside. Put empty frames in the bottom box and cut the non-brood comb off and place those frames over the empties. Repeat in 3weeks when the brood has emerged. She won't be laying in the outer frames.

[hjon71]

Do you overwinter in the 2 brood boxes only?
I would leave a super on and wait till spring. The bees will naturally move up and leave the brood boxes nearly empty. That will make your task much easier on you and the bees.
Sometimes the best option is wait.

[jayj200]

Go and watch jpthebeeman he is out of Louisiana hundreds of videos many with narration.
that will help more than pounding the boxes

[rookie2531]

Smoke the bottom pretty good thru the entrance, put a queen excluder in between the brood and supers. Come back in 4-6 days and if you have larva in supers, she's up there and move those supers on the lid and get to work on your bottoms.

[texanbelchers]

I'm a newbie, but couldn't you treat the bottom Comb as a cut out. Start with option 2. Take the cut off pieces and rubber band into a new frame. Put that into a new bottom box. After they are all done, put the old tip box on the new bottom

[jayj200]

He is just being contrary

[ugcheleuce]

Go and watch jpthebeeman he is out of Louisiana hundreds of videos many with narration. That will help more than pounding the boxes.

Thanks.  Which of his hundreds of videos do you think would apply to my situation?

Get another box, take off the top and use the bottom brood as a split. Requeen in a few days.

I actually considered that, thanks. However, before I can use the "bottom brood" I first have to get the bottom brood separated from the top brood :-) as at this time the top and bottom boxes form a single "body".

Couldn't you treat the bottom comb as a cut out? ... Take the cut off pieces and rubber band into a new frame. Put that into a new bottom box.

Yes, that was something I had considered, too.  Rubber banding in situ has the advantage that most of the brood remains intact.  One option that I had considered was to take the cut comb home, freeze it, and then melt it into wired frames, so that the bees can use the comb after cleaning out the dead.

Unfortunately I'm beginning to get the impression that my bees are not very hygenic (i.e. they're not quick to clean out all dead closed cells).

Do you overwinter in the 2 brood boxes only? I would leave a super on and wait till spring. The bees will naturally move up and leave the brood boxes nearly empty. That will make your task much easier on you and the bees.  Sometimes the best option is wait.

Many beeks in my region overwinter on a single brood box, but you're right -- a good option would be to simply wait for spring, when the cluster has naturally moved to the top and it would be easier to deal with the comb in the bottom box.

[hjon71]

Several good options to pick from. Let us know which way you decide to go and how it works out please. Someone else might find the info handy.

[texanbelchers]

I can't include a link, but do some searching on messy foundationless.  The following has been recommended.

Get some help and flip the hive.  Then you can cut the new top away from any attachments and remove the box.  I would think you could smoke the bees enough to be able to remove one comb extension at a time.  Keep what comb and brood you can and away with the rest.

Good luck

[jayj200]

Find A local bee keeper to help

just talking with another. helps make the job seam smaller

as far as which video, I don't know pick one. if that one helps your done.

they are entertaining. besides you will understand more the more you watch.

[BeeMaster2]

I'm a newbie, but couldn't you treat the bottom Comb as a cut out. Start with option 2. Take the cut off pieces and rubber band into a new frame. Put that into a new bottom box. After they are all done, put the old tip box on the new bottom

I do not know what is contrary about this. This is what I do all the time. My swarm traps are 5 frame deeps with medium frames. I usually get 9 frames out it by cutting and rubberbanding the comb into frames. works real well. I had a empty hive with just a few frames in it in my apiary that a swarm moved in with out me noticing. When I opened the top, there was comb 2 deeps long hanging fro the screen top board. I cut it up to fit into the medium frames.
Jim

[Dallasbeek]

Jim, I like the idea McCartney Taylor (think that's his name) uses.  He fastens the comb to top bars with large hair clips and wire ties, then goes back after the bees have built around the hair clips, cuts them out and reuses them.  I've never been able to get rubber bands to hold comb securely enough in place.  This guy has a bunch of videos on YouTube.

[jayj200]

Of coarse you pound the sides of the boxes hard when working the girls

[GSF]

I know the best way to get them out of the hive;


blow on them :-D


they be all over your face then :evil:

[hjon71]

I know the best way to get them out of the hive;


blow on them :-D


they be all over your face then :evil:

Been there, done that.

[BeeMaster2]

The OP asked about pounding on the box to drive the bees out of the hive. That was a trick used by Langstroth (read "The Hive And The Honey Bee") to create an artificial swarm. Per his instruction, place a empty skep over the hive, seal up all entrances drum beat the bottom hive for 5 minutes. A swarm with the old queen will move into the top hive. This does not remove all of the bees from the original hive. Bees do not move off of brood very easily.
I was called to remove bees in a large branch that the tree trimmers had tried to burn the hive out after they had cut it open. They did not budge.
Best bet is to cut the comb into frame size pieces and rubber band them in place with thin robber bands. I place 3 on each end, place the comb and slide the rubber bands in place.
Jim

[jayj200]

Oh