What are the signs of queenlessness?

[David LaFerney]

27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells.



Theoretically I could now have a laying queen, so I took a look yesterday but I didn't see any evidence of a queen - other than opened queen cells.  This is no big surprise, because I sometimes have a hard time finding the marked queen in my other hive, and eggs are a challenge for my nearly 50 year old eyes.

I realize from lurking around here that this hive is in the period that sometimes causes queenlessness anxiety even in experienced beeks.  You imagine that the virgin queen got ate by birds on her mating flight or that she just isn't up to the job or whatever, and about the time that the new mail order queen arrives you start seeing brood.

So I'm not really too concerned yet. 

Anyway, this hive seems completely serene and normal to my newbee senses - working hard building comb, bringing in stores, not at all aggressive, not making in ominous moaning sound - so I really suspect that it is queenright and I just need to relax for a few days.

But, just for the record what are the signs of queenlessness besides an absence of eggs?  Can an experienced beek really spot a queenless hive by some property or behavior?

[JP]

No eggs, larvae after a while is the usual sign. There usually is the roar. On smallish queenless hives I've seen them go lethargic, then perk up instantly when a queen was introduced.

Another sign of queenlessness, I take a queen catcher or cage that has housed other queens and place it atop the frames and observe their reaction. Queenless hives want a queen so badly, they converge onto the cage or catcher thinking they have a new queen, showing signs of acceptance. With a queen catcher they will often fill the catcher and cover it with a mass of bees.


...JP

[Eshu]

Unfortunately there aren't any hard and fast rules.  Usually there is the roar and increased defensiveness, but then some will confuse you by being quiet and gentle.

Don't worry yet.  Though make sure there is room for the queen to lay when she is ready.  If all of the frames look like your photo, it will take them a little time to move nectar.

[sc-bee]

>27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells

Hang in there a little longer!!! 28 days mate and lay (sometimes longer sometimes sooner) ;)

[David LaFerney]

Unfortunately there aren't any hard and fast rules.  Usually there is the roar and increased defensiveness, but then some will confuse you by being quiet and gentle.

Don't worry yet.  Though make sure there is room for the queen to lay when she is ready.  If all of the frames look like your photo, it will take them a little time to move nectar.

That frame was the one that had the eggs and brood on it that I used to bait the hive. Actually there is a fair amount of new white comb - almost a whole frame with only a few stores, and this:



empty comb which is where I bet I find the first eggs / brood when it appears.  It seems to me like they especially like to lay in brand new comb like this.

[David LaFerney]

No eggs, larvae after a while is the usual sign. There usually is the roar. On smallish queenless hives I've seen them go lethargic, then perk up instantly when a queen was introduced.

Another sign of queenlessness, I take a queen catcher or cage that has housed other queens and place it atop the frames and observe their reaction. Queenless hives want a queen so badly, they converge onto the cage or catcher thinking they have a new queen, showing signs of acceptance. With a queen catcher they will often fill the catcher and cover it with a mass of bees.


...JP

That would be cool but I don't have anything like that.  Maybe next year.  Thanks though.

[David LaFerney]

>27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells

Hang in there a little longer!!! 28 days mate and lay (sometimes longer sometimes sooner) ;)

I thought it was 24, but anyway with all the rain we've had I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a bit longer.  I just need to give it a week or so, and maybe I can spot some brood by then.

[sc-bee]

>27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells

Hang in there a little longer!!! 28 days mate and lay (sometimes longer sometimes sooner) ;)

I thought it was 24, but anyway with all the rain we've had I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a bit longer.  I just need to give it a week or so, and maybe I can spot some brood by then.

Nothing etched in stone as we all know :-D

Beekeeping Math

Caste   Hatch    Cap          Emerge   
Queen   3½ days  8 days +-1   16 days +-1  Laying        28 days +-5
Worker  3½ days  9 days +-1   20 days +-1  Foraging      42 days +-7
Drone   3½ days 10 days +-1   24 days +-1  Flying to DCA 38 days +-5

[David LaFerney]

Beekeeping Math

Caste   Hatch    Cap          Emerge   
Queen   3½ days  8 days +-1   16 days +-1  Laying        28 days +-5
Worker  3½ days  9 days +-1   20 days +-1  Foraging      42 days +-7
Drone   3½ days 10 days +-1   24 days +-1  Flying to DCA 38 days +-5

Thanks.