Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => REQUEENING & RAISING NEW QUEENS => Topic started by: Yuleluder on January 02, 2011, 11:49:19 am
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I am curious to know what some of you think about dividing a deep into a 3 way or 4 way mating nuc. My first plan was to dado the front and backs of the deeps for a 4 compartment standard frame mating nuc. There would be an entrance on each side of the deep hive body. Is anyone else doing this.
My second thought is to divide them into 3 compartments with 3 standard frames, this way I can throw some frame feeders in when the season approaches mid July.
Currently I have a bunch of 5 frame deep nucs that I divided into 2 compartments with 2 standard frames.
Any thoughts?
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Personally, I dont see a problem with any of it. I plan on doing several splits this year myself, so I built a bunch of 5 framers.
Check this out though if you havent already.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnucs.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnucs.htm)
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I've been using a bunch of 4-ways for a few years now. I'm pretty happy with them. The only thing is with 2 frames, they can get pretty congested rather quickly if you don't keep the queens moving.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html)
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I used the same setup your speaking of, last year. (Deep divided into four, 2-frame nucs) Had about 65% make it from queen cell to laying queens. A problem I had was a few queens managed to get between the screen and the corrugated panel of my SBB. This year I was going to staple the bottom board to eliminate any gaps. Also might try to paint each side a different color or just tape different geometric shapes on each side (if I get around to it) to help the queen find her home after her mating flights. Open to any other ideas too. I really like using deep frames to keep my equipment standard.
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I've been using a bunch of 4-ways for a few years now. I'm pretty happy with them. The only thing is with 2 frames, they can get pretty congested rather quickly if you don't keep the queens moving.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html)
What is your acceptance rate, what percentage of cells became mated queens?
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What is your acceptance rate, what percentage of cells became mated queens?
I can't give you a finite answer because there are many other variables that affect the mating rate, with the biggest one being weather. I can say that I see no noticeable difference in the 4x2 verses my 2x3 or standard 5 frame nucs. Biggest difference, as said before, is you need to stay on top of them lot of space to grow.
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I have used the divided 5 frame nuc the past few seasons. Just kind of curious what people were seeing while using the 4 way divided deep before I go and run dados through 20 deeps. :)
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They are nice to be able to pull deep frames from your hives with queen cells on them and put them into the 4 way queen castles.
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I did it with a bunch of 6 5/8 boxes -ran them as 4 way pocket boxes-
not that there was problems-but i am currently running half frames in
mini nucs and feel as for mating purpose these are the way to go -these
in combination with grow boxes-the full frame pockets needed alot of atention
Is there a reason why you want deeps -they would work good in a rotation for nucs -RDY-B
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rdy-b, I need to talk with you some more on this. I've tried mini mating before but wasn't happy with transferring over to deep nucs. I know there's a system to it (unless you're just producing mated queens) but I just got frustrated and gave up. I now use deep nucs, each with an entrance hole, and can stack them. Makes future splits really easy.
Scott
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ah the condo method- :lol: theres no syestem just pick the queen and introduce in a queen cage
JBZ -california mini -what ever-I always keep plenty nucs going -any problems just plug in a nuc and up and runing-
lots of peple try to use a mesh cage 4x4 made from hardware cloth -and thats PITA-what was the down fall when introducing
the queens- :) RDY-B
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No downfall to introducing queens, just was needing to let the colonies expand and couldn't bank the queens. If I were to be in it for just the mated queen trade it wouldn't be a problem.
Scott
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something i do alot is start them with one frame of brood-no need to bank
my queen rearing is probaly more for my BEE FIX than any thing -if i need Queens
or cells -I have no quames about buying whatever i need-but can always keep 10-15
nucs going-so its easy -when queens are handy- :) RDY-B
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Mine are four way mediums. If I were doing it again, I'd use 1/4" luan instead of 3/4" boards because four is a bit crowded with the 3/4" boards, but there is the issue of inner covers so they don't spill over into the next nuc when working on them...
http://bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm#matingnucs (http://bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm#matingnucs)
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Hey michael! I was planning on using burlap as a inner cover to prevent the bees from spilling over. I currently use burlap on my two way nucs. I was also thinking about making inner covers with divisions, using some 1/4" x 1/2" cut pine to prevent spill over. However it will be a lot more work building divided inner covers then just cutting burlap :)
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Yule if you want you can dato all you boxes but I use some 1/4" metal brackets I just hammer into my queen castles so that i can remove them and use them as regular spacers, I will look on the box tomorrow and get their technical name.
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The burlap works fine. But I have 3/4" boards for dividers so it's easy to staple it to them. When I go to the luan, I'm trying to figure how I'll staple it to the 1/4" wide board...
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Why not just use the luan for dividers and as four separate inner covers?
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>Why not just use the luan for dividers and as four separate inner covers?
That was basically my plan for next time. The 3/4" board crowed the four way a bit and the luan should buy me the room I want. I'll also probably do them out of eight frame mediums next time as that's what I've standardized on now and they will be easier to pick up.
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I read, Rearing Queen Honey Bees by Roger A Morse on the plane from Philly to San Fran this morning and found a four way mating nuc pictured in the book. They cut the divider boards so they sat a 1/4" above the top of the deep. This way four 1/4" thick covers could be used on each compartment. Then a regular cover can be placed over the four smaller covers. I think I may do this.
I did cut dados in all 20 deeps, assembled and painted them. Sunday I cut all the pieces needed for the bottom boards. These bottom boards will have a small strip of #8 hardware cloth running between the boards used to ensure the dividers sit flush on the BB. I will post pics once I have some assemble because I'm sure my description stinks, :)
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>They cut the divider boards so they sat a 1/4" above the top of the deep
That was my plan. I have the same book...
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They cut the divider boards so they sat a 1/4" above the top of the deep. This way four 1/4" thick covers could be used on each compartment. Then a regular cover can be placed over the four smaller covers. I think I may do this.
That is what I did we these -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html)
Except I went with 3/4" as 1/4" inner covers tend to sag, especially the 2 inner ones that are only supported on the ends. I'm pretty happy with them.
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That is what I did we these -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16515.0.html)
What is your mating percentage with the entrances all on the same side?
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What is your mating percentage with the entrances all on the same side?
Entrances are not all on the same side. What you see are screened vent holes that eliminate robbing. Entrances are 1/2" holes, one per side at the bottom.
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Why not just use the luan for dividers and as four separate inner covers?
(http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Hive%20Bodies/HiveBodies015.jpg)
If a queen excluder is placed over the luan deviders can't you just use a normal inner cover and and outer cover? I didn't glue these in so I could pull them out to go from two and three frame to five frame or back to eight frame.
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Ideally you want to be able to inspect/work one nuc without the other nucs being open. This prevents bees boiling from one nuc into another, fighting and potentially balling the queens.
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How does a tower hive work if you have to keep the bees separate? I thought that was supposed to be an advantage.