They're making a QUEEN CELL!

[Cindi]

Brian, now that was very very interesting.  Have a wonderful day, great life.  Cindi

[tillie]

So if the egg were three days old when I gave it to them, she could be emerging on the 25th - which is day after tomorrow - more time to "harden" and make her mating flight, but there's hope for these little girls yet!

Linda T in Atlanta

[annette]

Regarding the roaring. My queenless hive did not roar either, so did not even know it was queenless until I went in and saw that there was no brood, and the bees looked lethargic.

Annette

[Brian D. Bray]

A hive that has recently lost its queen usually produces the roaring sound.  In tillies case I thing the swarm was too small for that noise to be noticeable.  Also when brood is placed in a queenless hive it has the same effect as putting in a virgin queen.  The bees will quiet down and begin working while the queen (larvae) finishes developing to the point she can lay eggs.
In a hive that has been queenless for a time they will be more and more lethargic as the hive dwindles from lack of brood.  But they will not usually abandon the hive unless their is a queenright hive close by, and then not always.

[tillie]

Tomorrow I'll be working with my bees.  The swarm nuc got their frame of eggs/brood on the 12th.  Sometime in the next couple of days the queen, if she were successfully created, should emerge. 

In the event that the girls were not successful or that they might not keep the new queen alive or that she might leave for her mating flight and not return or any of the many possibilities of things not working out, tomorrow should I add another frame of eggs/brood to give them yet another chance to make a queen or really as an insurance policy for them?

Linda T, a concerned beekeeper in Atlanta

[Michael Bush]

Making a "queenless roar" is an energy outlay that they can't always sustain for long periods.  If in doubt, open the hive up and close it and then listen.

[tillie]

OK, but should I add another frame of eggs/brood just for insurance?

Linda T

[Brian D. Bray]

I don't get overly worried about dozens of queen cells.  The bees almost always make way more than they need, then they start being selective, destroying those they find that don't measure up.  By the time it's time for the cells to hatch the bees may have reduced 50 to 5 or even less.  This is especially true in the case where the queen has been unexpectedly lost. 
under normal supercedure situations the bees begin by being very selective of the larvae they choose to become a queen so may only make a few queen cells.  In disaster mode they don't have that choice so they make as many as possible and cull out the unacceptable.
I'm sure that tillie is learning a lot from her current "experiment" and wish her the greatest success.

[Michael Bush]

>So if the egg were three days old when I gave it to them, she could be emerging on the 25th

A queen started from a four day old (from the egg) larvae will emerge on the 12th day (16 from the egg) then harden then mate and then be LAYING on the 25th day (weather permitting for the mating).

[tillie]

I can see how I caused confusion.  I meant that the queen would possibly be emerging on the 25th of May - 13 days after I gave the hive the frame of brood and eggs - because assuming a 3 day old egg, the 25th of May would be the emerging date, but I understand that by the 25th day after the egg, she should be laying or my experiment has FAILED  :'(

Linda T trying to be more specific

[Michael Bush]

Sorry I misunderstood.  Just wanted to clarify.

[Cindi]

Linda, did you look yet?  It is the 28th today, I bet she came out on Friday, hope all is well.  I know that I have stuff I need to look at too in my colony that overwintered.  Our blackberry flow will be starting in a couple of weeks, hope its a good one.  Great day, great life, love life and live it.  Cindi

[tillie]

Honestly, after causing the death of the original queen, I'm scared to look, but since I don't know if she emerged successfully and if she is/is not mated, I plan to add a frame of brood and eggs today from another hive as per the Michael Bush method.  This way if there is a queen, no harm done and if not, they can start to work to make yet another attempt at requeening themselves.

Linda T hopeful in Atlanta

[tillie]

I opened the nuc today to add another frame of brood/eggs - I actually found one on another hive where I SAW the eggs - didn't just guess since there was tiny larvae.  This frame had lots of new eggs.  It came from my crazy comb hive so I hope the new queen, should she come from this frame, won't have crazy-comb genes.

Anyway, I opened the nuc and it was calm - no roar so maybe the queen did emerge.  I took out an old frame to add my insurance egg/brood frame and it was crawling with wax moth worms.  I scraped them out with my hive tool and squashed them and pitched them off of the deck.  The good news is that the frame wasn't being used - there may be some pollen in there, but it was at the edge of the nuc and they weren't really using it.  I so no more evidence (just from looking down into the nuc) of any other wax moth stuff so I put the new frame in next to the two other brood frames.

I also wanted to continue to feed this little nuc, but we are in the middle of a drought and I didn't want to use my Boardman feeder any more since it promoted robbing from other hives.  I put 1:1 sugar water in a baggie and laid it on the top of the nuc frames and snipped an X hole in the top of it.  Before putting the nuc top back on, I put the bottom bars from two frames on the long sides of the nuc to hold the top up high enough not to smash the baggie.  Then I put the top back on.

I hope the queen is there and if not, I've given them yet more resources to make one.  Weak hives do have struggles, though - wax moth, and I see SHB in the nuc as well...and it's hard for them to defend when being robbed.

Linda T hopeful for this hive in Atlanta

[Michael Bush]

>.and it's hard for them to defend when being robbed.

If it's being robbed don't feed it.  If you have to give them stores use capped honey from the strong hives.

Do something to stop the robbing.  Close it down for a day.  Put a robber screen on.  Something.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm

[tillie]

I did remove the feed and put a robber screen up and the robbing stopped.  I'll add a capped honey frame tomorrow.  They have capped honey in the nuc as well - I saw the edges of it looking into it today.

The whole wax moth thing really had me bummed....I hope these little girls make it.

Linda T in Atlanta

[tillie]

I checked today and the bees have not made another queen cell on the latest frame of brood and eggs that I gave them four days ago.  I assume this means the queen emerged. 

I saw no signs of new eggs or brood, but she could be out on her mating flight.  The first brood/egg frame was added to this small swarm on May 12.  If the queen emerged 15 or 16 days later on May 27th or 28th, she would have spent several days "hardening" and then took off for mating.  If all went well she should be back and start laying this week....cross your fingers!

It was thrilling to see that they seem to be doing well - enough food (I added a frame of capped honey last week) and much of the brood I added has hatched. 

Linda T in Atlanta