Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: VolunteerK9 on February 23, 2011, 10:13:28 am
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This is my first Spring and I don't care to say that I'm maybe one step above being clueless as to what to do. With that being said, what would be considered the primer for a colonies brood rearing? Would it be an increase of availability of pollen coming in or pseudo-nectar in the form of early syrup feeding? Or is it a combination of the two? I checked all my hives the other day, and with the exception of one, all had plenty of syrup stores. I had also placed a pollen supplement patty on all and about half had consumed all of the patty and the other half didn't even touch it. I'm wanting to set aside a couple of hives for a honey crop-the rest I plan on splitting the hound out of them to increase my numbers. So I guess the question is if they have capped reserves do I still need to feed syrup to trigger brood rearing earlier (as in open feeding) or is Spring brood rearing based more off of pollen availability?
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When nectar and pollen begins coming in, it signals them to start brooding.
The pollen sub and 1:1 sugar water does the same.
The one main caution:
Once pollen sub and sugar water is supplied, you can kill a hive quickly by letting it run out. Once started, you must keep it available to them until the flow.
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Yeah, I think I read you saying that somewhere before-basically "feed anytime after Dec 21 however you can't stop after you start". I know it depends on hive size-but how quick on average will they burn through their reserves? (generically speaking of course) As in real danged quick, pretty quick, or not that quick :-D
My hives arent busting at the seems coming out of winter population wise-3 mediums with one medium being completely empty on the bottom.
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After she begins laying you can figure on 1500 new mouths to feed each and every day. 10 days of egg laying can mean 15,000 new larva to feed. And it continues every day until they can find food in the field.
They can consume a lot in that period.
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Thanks for the info.
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Syrup feeding does not help brooding. They need pollen every day or substitute.
Syrup only stuck the hive and takes room from brood.
If the hive has nosema, it cannot eate patty.
Then give from bigger hives emerging bee brood frame and brood rearing can begin.
Nosema spoils the workers' gut
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one of the negative side effects of STOPING the protein suply-pollen sub in this case
before a natural source is available - is they will start to rip out and cannibalize there own brood
that will put you behind the eight-ball-once you start keep feeding intill they find a source-RDY-B
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It takes a frame of honey, a frame of pollen, and a frame of water to make a frame of bees. A hive can double in size in 5-6 weeks. Going by how many frames of bees you have now, you can get a rough calculation of the amount of feed they need for a certain time period. I assume one gallon of syrup is equal to two deep frames of honey for my calculations. Don't allow them to get below 15 pounds of stores at any time either.
Some bees are slow to brood up, even when you give them patties and syrup - Russians, for example are hard to stimulate until natural pollen and nectar starts coming in.
If patties are more than 2 inches from brood, bees eat them slower. If the cluster is not in contact with the patty - forget about them eating it. If you make your own patties, if the bees eat it slow, increase sugar % in the patty to get them to take it down faster.
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I think internal feeding is an insurance for those hives that start to brood, and get a late cold snap or a period of bad weather, and guards against brood starving and the bees ripping everything back out.
I have never seen the huge increases some suggest in my cold climate based on internal feeding while it's still cold outside and the bees are not flying. Without nectar and pollen being brought in from field bees, bees are very reluctant to raise brood beyond a small amount.
Same as I see in the fall. After bees come through the summer dearth, you can feed to add weight. But you want to stimulate brood, make them go out of the hive and get it.
While bees will start brooding in my area with the first maples and other early blossoms, this time period is also seen with days if not weeks of cold weather to follow. So I feed sometimes to maintain the brood production and keep them starving or cannibalizing the young.
But I don't think bees are inclined to raise massive amounts of brood in cold weather for the mere fact you throw in a patty or put on a feeder. That's just food for the bees. Not really a trigger mechanism to all of sudden have bees think they should be raising brood.....when they are not even flying.
I'm sure feeding in areas where it's bit warmer, and perhaps even with little actual nectar being produced, that bees will brood more based on some feed. but the warmth, the bees activities, and other factors all contribute also.
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I'm sure the effectiveness of stimulative feeding differs by locale. In mine, as in Bjorns, apparently, and probably most Northern locations, it is of questionable value.
http://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#stimulativefeeding (http://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#stimulativefeeding)
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Here's the way I answered the question on a different thread.
Un-predicatble weather patterns, and the fact winter is only half over, is one of the problems with trying to feed bees in February to get a jump on the season. Feeding fondant or syrup and pollen patties is a good way to prompt the bees into enlarging their brood nest for an early buildup. On the down side is what has just happened here in Western Washington, just as it has for the last 3 years, we get a nice moderately mid-February and many beekeepers start feeding their bees, then comes the 2 week hard freeze with snow.
A sudden prolonged cold snap/snow that prohibits the beekeeper from continuing to feed his bees plus the fact that the bees most likely won't break cluster to move stores or feed on what was placed in the hive can mean disaster. Especially considering that with the feeding, the bees began a large commitment to and expanded brood nest. This uses up a lot of the feed and stores the bees had and could prevent them from going into a tight cluster needed to survive the sudden cold spell.
I've seen a lot of hives die that way in early spring and some have wrongly called it CCD. It's not CCD, not when the stores are used up and the bees are head down in the brood cells having cannabalized every egg, larva, and pupae still in the white.
We just got 8 inches of snow since yesterday with as much forecast for the next 48 hrs and sub-freezing temps for the foreseeable future. Just the kind of think that manufactures deadouts from fed bees.
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I have feeded 20 years bees with pollen patty before the nature gives pollen.
It took me a lot of work to find out how it should to do. In Canada spring build up with patty feeding is highly recommended.
First thing is that when I give a complex receipt how to beed them, others give some simple recipe which is not palatable to bees. I have got advices to my recipe from US laboratoty researches.
If snow covers the ground over 4 days, bees do not get drinking water and all larvae will be destroyed.
To be that have happened once in 20 yeas.
At the beginning I started to early and larvae become sick because bees get no water from snow.
Five frame colonies become sick for patty feeding. Perhaps the opening of the hive cools so much the brood that they got chalkbrood.
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See more from a Finnish beekeeping forum
http://bee.freesuperhost.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144910827 (http://bee.freesuperhost.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144910827)
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Finski, I checked out your link to the Finnish bee keeping forum. You’ve got some great information, as always. I could read your page, but the rest of the forum I didn’t have clue about.
You are to be congratulated on how well you communicate in English! Very good. I’ve tried to learn Spanish, but it was a hopeless cause. I’m lucky to be semi coherent with English.
I’m curious what prompted you to experiment with your aquarium heaters for added spring boost? It sounds like a logical idea to me (hypothesis that heat allows for an expanded brood area), but I might be in a minority on that opinion. Is this common practice in Finland or Sweden? Have you measured how warm it is inside the hive when you have 15watts running?
If I read your link correctly it sounds like you don’t see much gain from the 15watts until the Willows bloom. Then you keep running your 15watts until the days are above 15C.
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Is this common practice in Finland or Sweden?
I do not know about Sweden. Electrict heating is not common at all here. Only few use. Very few use patty feeding too.
If I read your link correctly it sounds like you don’t see much gain from the 15watts until the Willows bloom. Then you keep running your 15watts until the days are above 15C.
You noticed that right.
I start about 7. April when snow has melted. Then it takes 3 weeks and willow starts blooming 1.5.
At first clearly lack of nurser bees limits the brooding but when new bees have emerged the blooding burst out.
Without patty feeding brooding starts 4 weeks later when willos start to give pollen.
I did not understand the meaning of heat untill I started to use heaters.
Greates mystery is that biggest hives get the best advangae from this. The reason is the formula of "Volume of the Ball" =
Brood area is not [/b] actually an area. It is a ball
(http://0.tqn.com/d/math/1/0/I/F/spherer.gif)
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The volume of brood means the numbers of bees when you measure the radius.
When you look the heat loss from cluster, then you may study what radius means to the surface of the ball.
A brood produces as much heat as a resting bee.
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Finski makes a good point. The surface area rises with the square of the radius but the volume rises with the cube of the radius. So as the radius increases, the ratio of surface area to volume goes down. That means that for a given volume of bees, large clusters have a smaller surface area and lose less heat. So when it comes to heat, bigger is better. Did I get that right Finski?
BTW, this is the reason that Ice Age mammals were very large.... mammoths, bison, sabre tooth tigers, etc. Small animals lose too much heat.
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All good info. Thanks again. I had placed all my patties directly over the brood nest, it was just weird that some were completely consumed on some hives and not even touched on the others. The weather here is tricky to say the least. Several times in years past, my peach trees have bloomed only to get killed later by a late April frost. Currently we've had weather ranging from the high 60's with low 40's at night. And the bees are bringing in pollen in a pretty consistent basis (red and deep orange to light yellow in color). I guess I'm guilty of trying to 'pimp the system' by feeding syrup/substitute in late February so if it blows up in my face, it will go down as another costly lesson learned.
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A sudden prolonged cold snap/snow that prohibits the beekeeper from continuing to feed his bees plus the fact that the bees most likely won't break cluster to move stores or feed on what was placed in the hive can mean disaster. Especially considering that with the feeding, the bees began a large commitment to and expanded brood nest. This uses up a lot of the feed and stores the bees had and could prevent them from going into a tight cluster needed to survive the sudden cold spell.
So will the nurse bees not abandon brood in the event of a cold snap in order to cluster?
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So will the nurse bees not abandon brood in the event of a cold snap in order to cluster?
I have not seen that in spring. In autumn I have seen it.
In April I have 3-4 frames brood in normal hive. At night temp may be -6 and by day near 0C.
Bees not go anywhere and abondon brood. They make a tight cluster over the brood.
If bees are not in tight cluster in early spring, it is a sign that perhaps they have no brood.
Bees start brood rearing often in February even if temps are -20C. Broos patches are very small.
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Thanks you beeks. This is awesome discussion.
thomas
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Once it gets into the 40's Fahrenheit are the bees able to find water if snow is still on the ground? If not what if you provided water in a black pan with a black landing surface near hives so they had a place to land drink and maintain flying body temps? Can you provide water in frame feeders, fondant, and pollen patties so they have everything they need? If you can get a brood cycle ahead of the game thats a big deal.
I was thinking of adding pollen patties around the end of next week. Some years the snow start melting and spring arrives mid march, other years winter hangs around till April. I figure the odds should start wighting in my favor of not having sub zero temps about that time as well. Last year was very warm and by March 12th all snow was gone and spring arrived a month early, by April colonies were packed with pollen and brood. I am sure we wont get that lucky again for some time but I sure would like to help them build up as much as I can without to much risk of death or major setbacks.
What about condensation on hive walls. I was reading an old book on google and the author wrote that they get water that condensates on walls etc that builds up all the time from the warmer days and cool nights. Is it not this melting frost and condensation that gives them the water they need over the winter. If they run out of honey and all they have is dry sugar that you give, how would they survive if their is not a source of water like I mention here.
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Personally, just me now ;); I wait till the P.... willows are coming on strong before adding 'anything' but sugar or syrup (too cold for syrup yet, for me anyway). I've been watching them today, and yes, they are getting something from snow; landing , resting, tongue lapping, and returning to hive (of course, many don't make it back). That's today's observation with Super ;) Hive.
thomas
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In Sweden it is not widespread practice with electric heating in hives. I have seen advertisements in old beekeeping catalogs.1930´s
Here is a link to the forum finski Hade using an interpreter
http://translate.google.se/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbee.freesuperhost.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fyabb2%2FYaBB.pl (http://translate.google.se/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbee.freesuperhost.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fyabb2%2FYaBB.pl)
mvh edward :-P
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Can you provide water in frame feeders, fondant, and pollen patties so they have everything they need? .
In Australia there was a research. They asked, can they keep colony stong with patty feeding over the short winter that bees are ready to attack on canola fields then. The hives got very bad nosema and they had less bees in colonies than in natural way hives.
YOu see what happens when you collect in USA thousands of colonies to South over winter. Artificial nutritin does not help them enough. Colonies become sick when they do not get food from nature.
When things are not OK, colonies aare easy to get chalkbrood and then is takes time to get ridd off it.
with 20 years experience Beenuts, I do not recommend any of your proposal. Patty feeding is difficult enough to learn.
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IF YOU WANT A STRONG BUILD UP IN SPRING
RULE 1#
Try to get your colonies strong in late summer. It is easier than rear weak hive strong in spring.
2 #
And don't split your strong hive is spring. They give more value as strong when they rear their brood masses. You may give to the weak cony a frame of emerging bees and it gives a huge boost to small hive.
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Why extra strong hives after winter are not better than normal?
That I have wo0ndered sometimes why? Where the advantage went that I had super colonies?
That was before I used patty feeding.
In my climate snow melts away at the beginning of April and bees start to search pollen. If sun is shining, bees come out and they perhaps get some pollen. When cloud goes in front of sun, bees drop down. Those who drop on snow or in shadow,get cold and do not rise again.
So even 50% of colony bees may die on their trips in April. All wintered bees will die before end of May.
If I start in natural way, willows starts blooming first of May. Then after 3 weeks new bees start to emerge. Then quickly old bees are gone.
During first generation of brood a huge cluster give no special help. They have that 3-4 broof frames what the half size colony has.
But when I start to feed 7.4. patty, I get new nurser bees when willow has started to bloom.
In a big cluster it happens a brooding explosion. Soon the hive has 10-15 frames of brood. They have still their wintered bees alive and they can raise a bigger brood ball.
This is not theory. I have seen this during these years.
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Does syrup feeding stimulate?
Before my patty feeding years I trued to stimulate some hives with extracted honey frames which had pollen and honey. It helped paractically nothing.
Yes, folks believe that sugar feeding helps build up but it is not true.
No one claim against syrup feeding but most try to claim against protein feeding even if they have done it.
Does it actually help then?
When you start patty feeding, bees are ready to forage 2 months later. It depends what are foraging weathers then. Usually my hives get 15 kg per hive dandelion honey, but if it becomes a rainy week, they eate most of they yield.
Last summer my friend said that patty feeding helped nothing to get dandelion honey. It is true because it was only one foraging day during blooming. But soon begun raspberry blooming and it was huge. The weight of balance hive raised 8 kg a day.
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My balance hive last summer
Use google translate to find out words
Right axel is kg and horizontal axel is date
http://www.mtt.fi/bees/anjalankoski10.htm (http://www.mtt.fi/bees/anjalankoski10.htm)
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syrup needs to be thin to stimulate bees -thin as nectar-syrup needs to be thick for benefit of feed for bees-
when you use sub for Protein-There has to be CARBOHYDRATE as-well-thin syrup will provide this as well as
stimulate brood rearing-finski feeds huge amounts of sugar syrup to his bees before winter sleep-it is this he is counting on for his carbohydrates-but he gets no brood rearing stimulation from the winter stores-RDY-B
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Can you provide water in frame feeders, fondant, and pollen patties so they have everything they need? .
In Australia there was a research. They asked, can they keep colony stong with patty feeding over the short winter that bees are ready to attack on canola fields then. The hives got very bad nosema and they had less bees in colonies than in natural way hives.
YOu see what happens when you collect in USA thousands of colonies to South over winter. Artificial nutritin does not help them enough. Colonies become sick when they do not get food from nature.
When things are not OK, colonies aare easy to get chalkbrood and then is takes time to get ridd off it.
with 20 years experience Beenuts, I do not recommend any of your proposal. Patty feeding is difficult enough to learn.
YES see what hapens indeed-these bees are rasied with a pollen sub and sucrose sryup ONLY diet
it is feedlot beekeeping and we in the USA have perfected it-
feeding bees Nutra-Bee pollen substitute in California 1/12/ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6B5qm2ut18#)
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My balance hive last summer
Use google translate to find out words
Right axel is kg and horizontal axel is date
http://www.mtt.fi/bees/anjalankoski10.htm (http://www.mtt.fi/bees/anjalankoski10.htm)
Hello finski if you use this Webb page you can translate your Finnish Webb pages and if you after translation copy the link you can refer to it directly on the forum
http://translate.google.se/?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&tab=wT#fi (http://translate.google.se/?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&tab=wT#fi)|en|
Put the Webb address in the box push the return key and you will get a translation copy that link and then you can post it on the forum
mvh edward :-P
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It is so bad language that it cannot use "raw translation".
Swedish to English will be translated well, I have heard.
Finnish language structure is very different from German languages.
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feeding bees Nutra-Bee pollen substitute in California 1/12/[/url]
Really a harsh system... 7 pounds at one time
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syrup needs to be thin to stimulate bees -thin as nectar-syrup needs to be thick for benefit of feed for bees-
when you use sub for Protein-There has to be CARBOHYDRATE as-well-thin syrup will provide this as well as
stimulate brood rearing-finski feeds huge amounts of sugar syrup to his bees before winter sleep-it is this he is counting on for his carbohydrates-but he gets no brood rearing stimulation from the winter stores-RDY-B
Pollen patty has 50% sugar that it does not start to ferment.
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IF YOU WANT A STRONG BUILD UP IN SPRING
RULE 1#
Try to get your colonies strong in late summer. It is easier than rear weak hive strong in spring.
Yup broke Rule#1 last fall, I will know better next time.
I went into winter with 7 hives-I came out with 6. One is incredibly weak and may or may not make it to April. On the others, yesterday I was cleaning off the SBB trays and noticed a pollen/trash debris field that would have been from 5-6 strong frames so I think I'm good on the rest.
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To add to what Finski is advocating:
Avoid spring splits to obtain greater harvest of spring blooms. After which I would split, sometime in June, and then let the bees build back to a large hive or the late summer forage of blackberries and such.
A large hive of bees, with full stores come October will is almost garunteed to make it through the winter sans disease or damage (blow overs etc).
A split in mid-June gives both the hive and its split ample time to rebuild. But if you really want a large honey crop, keep the bees building comb in the brood chamber and don't split. See an earlier post on the subject entry #18: http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,31631.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,31631.0.html)
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feeding bees Nutra-Bee pollen substitute in California 1/12/[/url]
Really a harsh system... 7 pounds at one time
just seams Harsh system-until you get the right formula-that wont get hard or
start to mold sounds like your patty formula is for sugar patty -50% not protein -the bigest set back beekeepers make is to try and do everything on the cheap and dont invest the $$ it takes to prepare high quality protein for the bees-cost is about $10-$15 per hive if done correctly will pay back ten fold-RDY-B
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sounds like your patty formula is for sugar patty -50% not protein
I do not understand your thinking. How can you put "high" protein into the hive without 50% sugar?
However, bees need much sugar too. What goes wrong?
Normal bee bread in combs has 30% honey-sugar.
I use now much dry yeast because I get it very cheaply. When I make that patty porriage, sometimes it makes air bubbles, which means that yeast is fermenting. I add sugar and it stops. You see that it is critical point.
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-finski feeds huge amounts of sugar syrup to his bees before winter sleep-it
It is on average 20 kg per hive to consumption September to May, 8 months
Is that huge?
You live in California and it is difficult to understand how things are here.
But well, you seems to have snow rain there -2C and +5C, just like we have in April.
We have no flowers in April. Soil is frozen. Grass start to grow in the middle of May.
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=94517 (http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=94517)
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sounds like your patty formula is for sugar patty -50% not protein
I do not understand your thinking. How can you put "high" protein into the hive without 50% sugar?
However, bees need much sugar too. What goes wrong?
Normal bee bread in combs has 30% honey-sugar.
I use now much dry yeast because I get it very cheaply. When I make that patty porridge, sometimes it makes air bubbles, which means that yeast is fermenting. I add sugar and it stops. You see that it is critical point.
when you add an amount of sugar to a mix you are reducing the PROTEIN %-we chose to keep the protein % up at a efficient rate of % for the bees benefit-we use phagogastric stimulants to increase consumption-and add attractants with the use of lemon grass oil and spearmint and so forth-to maintain
consumption-this provides high intake of protein-bees get carbs through syrup -thin syrup-stimulates brood
this is done as early as OCT----DEC-to rear and maintain large winter bee population -they are then feed to make sure they are not protein compromised intill FEB---when natural event takes place-
I understand that the mix you are using requires you to add high levels of sugar to stop the fermentation-have you tried to change the PH to a more acidic -like honey --try lemon juice- RDY-B
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-finski feeds huge amounts of sugar syrup to his bees before winter sleep-it
It is on average 20 kg per hive to consumption September to May, 8 months
Is that huge?
You live in California and it is difficult to understand how things are here.
But well, you seems to have snow rain there -2C and +5C, just like we have in April.
We have no flowers in April. Soil is frozen. Grass start to grow in the middle of May.
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=94517 (http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=94517)
its not huge for FINLAND -but it dose not stimulate brood-so thats why you are of they determanation that sryup wont stimulate brood- in your case thats corect but it is not absolute -and in other location can be very efective -to give the bees false spring and early start-but your bees will take rest in snow and freze so you must wait intill DANDYLIONS--RDY-B
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Here thin syrup does not stimulate brooding.
Bees get enough protein from my patty. Willow pollen has only 15% raw protein and that is why bees eate patty with willow pollen.
I do not use food industry chemicals to be perfect. I have only 20-30 hives.
I have notices that bees need to get 3 hours water a day to get enough water from outside and that needs sunshine. Water foraging bees are thousands.
I have made in sunny patches water pools to feed them and glass plate frotection to keep them warm
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its not huge for FINLAND -but it dose not stimulate brood-so thats why you are of they determanation that sryup wont stimulate brood- in your case thats corect but it is not absolute -and in other location can be very efective -to give the bees false spring and early start-but your bees will take rest in snow and freze so you must wait intill DANDYLIONS--RDY-B
[/quote]
Grazy man. I do not know what stimulating I need. I live 100 miles away from my hives and I am not stimulating them all the time.
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its not huge for FINLAND -but it dose not stimulate brood-so thats why you are of they determanation that sryup wont stimulate brood- in your case thats corect but it is not absolute -and in other location can be very efective -to give the bees false spring and early start-but your bees will take rest in snow and freze so you must wait intill DANDYLIONS--RDY-B
Grazy man. I do not know what stimulating I need. I live 100 miles away from my hives and I am not stimulating them all the time.
[/quote]thats why we feed huge amounts --6lbs at a time-- :lol: RDY-B
leaves plenty of time for BANK DEPOSIT- :lol:
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try this recipe-- 8-)
Protein Patty Recipe
1. 125 lbs. Sugar (Add water and keep wet. Should be a little thicker than pancake batter.)
2. Add either 3 cups citric acid or 4 quarts of lemon juice, (this is to put the ph at 4 ½ to 5) 3. Add 1 cup Honey Bee Healthy (optional , but we prefer)
4. Add ½ bag Vitamins & Electrolytes (we use Russell’s) (2 oz. worth)
5. Add 10 lbs. pollen (optional)
(keep the mix wet)
6. Mix in 25 lbs. of Inedible Dried eggs
7. Add 3 ½ cups Canola Oil
8. Mix in 24 lbs. (2 gallons) Honey
9. Finish by adding 50 lbs. Brewtech Brewers Yeast. Water until it has the consistency you desire.
;) RDY-B
this gives you 20% protein before adding watter
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When you calculate your recipe, you 50% sugar there.
I do not try that recipe. Dried eggs? - it gives no advantage as protein
I use now this protein source
2 parts dry yeast (for baking)
1 part soya flour animal milk replaces Hamplet Protein HP 100
1 part irradiated pollen
fructose instead of honey --- keeps patty moist
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Rdy, you have pollen under minimum. Minimum is 20% to be palatable and you have only 12%
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yes that is specal 50% recipe for you- and other beekeepers
in FINLAND -i thought you would like-- :lol:--RDY-B
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Dry yeast is lighter as protein source but if you add it, it hardens the patty and bees have difficulties to eate it.
If bees do not get enough protein they eate more that stuff. No problem.
As vitamin I use multivitamins and C-vitamin (ascorbic).
From an Egyptian reseach I read that Magnesium is usefull to brooding. Now I add it.
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3 kg dry irradiated pollen
0,7 litre water to soften pollen over night
3 kg dry baker yeast
2 kg soya flour with fat or without
1 kg fructose ( or honey if you do not have AFB)
1 kg flour sugar
3 multivitamin pill crushed and diluted into water.
150 mg C- vitamin = Ascorbic acid powder
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10,7 kg total
I do not give that to Californian beekeepers becase I have taken the recipe from US laboratory researches.
You have lemons there in trees (citric acid + ascorbin acid + lemon oil)
We have here only pine cones in trees.
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needs canola oil for omega3 and lipids -will keep paty soft
may substitute with corn oil-RDY-B
i have already given away to many secrates- ;)
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needs canola oil for omega3 and lipids -will keep paty soft
may substitute with corn oil-RDY-B
Yes, I use it. HP 100 is not fat but its protein has balanced for baby animals.
Look what egg has. It has almost as much fat as protein, and bad cholesterol fat!
http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=858&lang=en (http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=858&lang=en)
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ok dont say i didnt try-the fats are good for bees--RDY-B
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Finski or any northern beek with experiance
I am worried my bees have not pollen at all. Fall of 2009 they had lots of winter/spring pollen stores. But this last fall I did not see hardly any reserves at all. I feed them pollen patties to rear their winter bees on. Im worried that they dont have the pollen the need to raise any healthy brood at all right know. The last dead out I found had all kinds of honey, a small patch of brood and zero pollen.
Do you still think I should not feed any pollen? I know they should be raising some brood right now. If they do not have the nutrients available, wont they just deplete what is in their bodies to raise brood, get sick and die?
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BEENUTS--when dose the natural event of pollen gathering start at your location-RDY-B
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finski-need more info on HP100
is this it
http://www.asn-nutrition.com/hp100.htm (http://www.asn-nutrition.com/hp100.htm) RDY-B
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Mid to late march, or as soon as they can fly. If they can fly their is tree pollen everywhere. Last year it was unusually very warm and on the 8th there was snow on the ground and the bees had not been able to fly yet other than some cleansing flights. On the 12th it was in the 50s or 60s and they were bringing in pollen by the bucket, (white) a few days latter they were bringing in yellow pollen in by the bucket, by April first I had two brood boxes full of bees and brood and queen cups up the wazo. I took lots of brood from them and made nucs to try to re-leave swarming and they still started swarming 4th of May a couple weeks ahead of normal. That was a very weird spring though and I think it screwed up all the late pollen sources that would have been available for winter.
I am not a pro with years of trial and err but it seems they raise brood anyway this time of year so I kind of have a hard time believing it would hurt them if I give them a half pound of pollen patty every hive but I am not going to take a leap of ignorance and kill em all. Has anyone tried water in frame feeders? I have frame feeders in every colony. Should be above freezing most days, hives are insulated, and wrapped in felt.
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I dont live in snow but i think the comment you made about condensation is a good point
i also now that the 1/2 pound of sub would only help your bees -your almost at the time they gather there pollen -and yes they should start rearing brood as the days are lengthening and that is a big part of it also
;) RDY-B
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finski-need more info on HP100
is this it
http://www.asn-nutrition.com/hp100.htm (http://www.asn-nutrition.com/hp100.htm) RDY-B
look for Hamlet Protein USA
it is a Danish Company
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Bee-nuts; I'm gonna start leaving mine patties in the next few days, waiting for another warm up as its been going down to zero the last few nights, as you must know. Willows and others will be coming on w/in next few weeks, this being the perfect time for a head start. Once they start actively flying again (first day we get above 50F) I'll open feed with DRY substitute. I've been noticing some popple trees opening up, so it won't be long now, just need temps to coperate.
You're right, last Spring, heck, last year, had some weird weather, even for us ;)
thomas