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Author Topic: Annual honey extraction....  (Read 7481 times)

Offline Colobee

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2015, 01:58:38 am »

How much wax will I get? One site says a frame uses 2.6 lbs of wax??? I doubt one of my empty frames weighs ~8 oz.

I'd double check that. Maybe 2.6 lbs of honey to produce the wax? I'm pretty sure an empty 10 frame box doesn't have 26 lbs of wax in it. Maybe 1/10th of that ??? Those numbers just don't work in my mind.
 
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Offline chux

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2015, 08:20:00 am »
I'm not sure how much honey is sacrificed per pound of wax. I do know that there is a sacrifice, though. The bees burn through nectar that would have gone into honey stores, in the manufacture of comb. This is a fact. And yes, Eric, you certainly can throw that frame back on, after you cut out all the comb. I use foundationless frames. If my girls finish capping a frame in the first week of June, and I harvest with crush and strain, then put the frame back in, what will happen? That frame will get built out about a quarter of the way at most, until the flow slows down. Then it will sit until my second flow in July. They  might get that frame finished and capped before the end of the cotton flow. 

On the other hand, when I give them the comb back in June, when the July flow hits, they fill that comb, and possibly draw out comb in another super too. I don't see any way of getting around it. It simply makes sense. Cut and strain will cut down on honey harvest. For some, that is acceptable. Some prefer more wax. If that floats your boat, go for it and have fun.

Offline Colobee

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2015, 08:47:36 am »
Amen, brother - I have extracting frames that are almost 40 years old.   :wink:
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Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2015, 06:50:02 pm »
Here is a photo of my homemade extractor.


It's made of wood slats with a sewing machine motor and contrller.

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2015, 06:51:47 pm »
I can only load one photo at a time. Here another.

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2015, 06:53:30 pm »
It can radially spin six deep frames.
l

Offline chux

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2015, 08:56:52 am »
divemaster1963, That is too cool. Thanks for showing the extractor. Is the plexiglass disk low enough to hold the frames in place? No metal basket?

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2015, 08:12:28 pm »
The side bar is level with the top lexan there is a slot in the bottom lexan to hold the bottom in.

John

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2015, 09:13:24 am »
>I'm not sure how much honey is sacrificed per pound of wax. I do know that there is a sacrifice, though.

It costs some honey to not have drawn comb, but that is because of time.  I'm pretty sure there is no sacrifice as they make wax whether they use it or not...

"Again, at all times of a heavy yield of honey, the bees secrete wax whether any combs are built or not; and if the sections are all supplied with foundation, and the hive filled with comb, this wax is wasted or else the foundation given is wasted; have it which way you please...To show that I am not alone in this matter regarding the waste of wax, I wish to quote from two or three of our best apiarists; the first is Prof. Cook, and no one will say that he is not good authority. he says on page 166 of the latest edition of his Manual 'But I find upon examination that the bees, even the most aged, while gathering, in the honey season, yield up the wax scales the same as those within the hive. During the active storing of the past season, especially when comb-building was in rapid progress, I found that nearly every bee taken from the flowers contained wax scales of varying size, in the wax pockets.'
"This is my experience during "active storing," and the wax scales are to be found on the bees just the same whether they are furnished with foundation or not; and I can arrive at no other conclusion than that arrived at by Mr. S.J. Youngman, when he says on page 108: 'The bees secrete wax during a honey flow, whether they are building comb or not; and if they are not employed in building comb, this wax is most certainly lost.'
"Once more on page 93, of the American Apiculturist, Mr. G.W. Demaree says: 'Observation has convinced me that swarms leave the parent colony better prepared to build comb than they ever are under other circumstances; and that if they are not allowed to utilize this accumulated force, by reason of having full sheets of foundation at hand to work out, there will necessarily be some loss; and I think that when the matter is computed, to find the loss and gain the result will show that the foundation really costs the apiarist double what he actually pays for it in cash'...Now, I have often noticed, and especially in looking back over the last year, after reading Mr. Mitchell's "Mistaken Economy," that swarms hived in June would fill their hives full of nice straight worker combs, and the combs would be filled with brood during the first two weeks after hiving; while a colony not casting a swarm would not make a gain of a single pound of honey; nor would a swarm having a full set of combs given them, or the frames filled with foundation, be a whit better off at the end of two weeks. Mr. P.H. Elwood has noted the same thing; thus proving that the theory that it takes 20 pounds of honey to produce one pound of comb, will not hold good in cases where bees desire comb and have free access to pollen. As most of my comb is built at this time, the reader will readily see that the combs cost me but little, save the looking after the colony once or twice while building comb, which is far cheaper than buying foundation, or fussing with a foundation mill."--G.M. Doolittle ABJ Vol 20 No 18 pg 276
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Offline flyboy

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2015, 11:38:46 am »
Our club extractor is a 3 frame Mann Lake manual one. Works well. I just did my first extraction with it.

When I announced at the bee meeting that I would like to watch someone do a honey extraction the guy next to me said that growing up in Scotland, his dad just scratched that face of the comb and tilted it on a 45 agree angle so the honey poured out onto a cookie tray.

Anyways that is how I did the face. I scratched it with a comb like device which preserved the honeycomb. I am not interested in the hot knife as it is expensive. The only advantage to the hot knife that I can see is that the comb is going to end up flat. I also do not want to heat the honey.
Cheers
Al
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Offline flyboy

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2015, 11:44:52 am »
Here is a photo of my homemade extractor.


It's made of wood slats with a sewing machine motor and contrller.
DM,

I like the sewing machine motor idea.

Any idea of the RPM? or speed reduction you have used?

Does the rotation distort the wax?

I know that the arrangement of the frames on our club extractor will cause the frames to bow outward with centrifugal force.
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2015, 01:15:43 pm »
Flyboy,
If you get a radial extractor, you will not have that problem. Radial extractors have the frames inserted with the top board at the outer edge of the extractor. Frames are tilted about 15 degrees up which aids in extraction.
If the frames in the tangential extractor are distorting, it may be that they are being spun too fast, too soon.
You need to get rid of some of the weight on both sides before spinning them at full speed on both sides.
Jim
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2015, 02:35:29 pm »
>When I announced at the bee meeting that I would like to watch someone do a honey extraction the guy next to me said that growing up in Scotland, his dad just scratched that face of the comb and tilted it on a 45 agree angle so the honey poured out onto a cookie tray.

I'm sure it depends on the source, the temperature, the water content etc. but it never worked for me.  None of it came out except what I scratched out in the first place.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline biggraham610

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2015, 04:48:41 pm »
>When I announced at the bee meeting that I would like to watch someone do a honey extraction the guy next to me said that growing up in Scotland, his dad just scratched that face of the comb and tilted it on a 45 agree angle so the honey poured out onto a cookie tray.

I'm sure it depends on the source, the temperature, the water content etc. but it never worked for me.  None of it came out except what I scratched out in the first place.

Me too. G
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Offline flyboy

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2015, 05:27:57 pm »
Flyboy,
If you get a radial extractor, you will not have that problem. Radial extractors have the frames inserted with the top board at the outer edge of the extractor. Frames are tilted about 15 degrees up which aids in extraction.
If the frames in the tangential extractor are distorting, it may be that they are being spun too fast, too soon.
You need to get rid of some of the weight on both sides before spinning them at full speed on both sides.
Jim
Interesting. I hadn't thought of that about the radial extractor and the spinning too fast too soon. Thanks!
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2015, 08:35:06 pm »
Here is a photo of my homemade extractor.


It's made of wood slats with a sewing machine motor and controller.
DM,

I like the sewing machine motor idea.

Any idea of the RPM? or speed reduction you have used?

Does the rotation distort the wax?

I know that the arrangement of the frames on our club extractor will cause the frames to bow outward with centrifugal force.

I have not checked the rpm yet I have a rpm gauge just have not done it yet. I have tested it on empty frames before I started using it. it kicked out only one frame. but it was not in the frame right to begin with. I have been using it reg the pass to years. because I have the foot controller on it I can start out slow and as the honey is spun out I slowly increase the speed. works great .I think the reduction is probably is 8to 1 the rpm on the motor is 2400 listed.

Offline flyboy

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2015, 01:37:50 am »
Here is a photo of my homemade extractor.


It's made of wood slats with a sewing machine motor and controller.
DM,

I like the sewing machine motor idea.

Any idea of the RPM? or speed reduction you have used?

Does the rotation distort the wax?

I know that the arrangement of the frames on our club extractor will cause the frames to bow outward with centrifugal force.

I have not checked the rpm yet I have a rpm gauge just have not done it yet. I have tested it on empty frames before I started using it. it kicked out only one frame. but it was not in the frame right to begin with. I have been using it reg the pass to years. because I have the foot controller on it I can start out slow and as the honey is spun out I slowly increase the speed. works great .I think the reduction is probably is 8to 1 the rpm on the motor is 2400 listed.
OK the reduction is 8 to 1 and 2400. Perfect that's what I wanted.

Excellent idea of a sewing machine motor BTW. I will keep an eye open for one
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2015, 09:45:41 pm »
Check with local sewing machine shop. They may have a old one. Or getl the wife's or mothers old one and replace it with a newer version.

John

Hey check local thrift shop too

Offline flyboy

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Re: Annual honey extraction....
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2015, 11:40:11 pm »
Hey I hadn't thought of the sewing shop. Thanks.
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

 

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