Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Moots on November 01, 2013, 02:00:11 am
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OK...guys and gals, not really looking for a debate of why we all do what we do concerning foundation. That's been debated fairly well in other threads. As a matter of fact, another current thread with some passionate opinions on the subject of foundation is what gave me the idea for this poll. Thought it would be nice to know not only what was people's preference but to also know if that was always their preferred choice, or had a different path led them there.
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I started with foundationless. Tried wax and plastic - plastic was a total bust. Now I use both wax and foundationless.
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Tried plastic, went to wax, going to a combination of foundation and foundationless.
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Tried plastic, went to wax, going to a combination of foundation and foundationless.
What he said!! :-D
Simply bumbling around to find what works for me.
IF I wanted plastic, my over the ridge neighbor has a stack of it in his barn.
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First experience with bees was with a large (at the time 1000 hives was large) in the mid 70's and they were a mixed bag. I believe The Deeps (broodnests) were mostly foundationless and the honey supers were all shallows with wax foundation, but it was along time ago :-\. Over the years of 'playing with bees' off and on (until becoming a serious bee 'keeper') I used wax because that's what everybody else did, a BIG bandwagon. The basic start up kit comes with one or two deeps, a medium, a shallow, inner and outer covers, along with 'wax foundation' to place inside the frames. The only directions offered to beginners was/is for proper placement, not necessarily other options, unless it meant an upgrade of some sort of an even 'better' foundation or .........plastic. Frankly I don;t understand the logic for using plastic and remain unconvinced that they work very well or that the bees wouldn't rather not have them in their homes. Sorry.............to drone on..................
We can;t help our desire to do something, find something...better. Part of the human condition and not a bad thing, usually :-D.
Beeks began experimenting with their own homemade foundations well over 100 years ago as far as I can tell, making it a relatively new addition to beekeeping, not any older than the Lang hives most of use I suspect, but they really didn't take off until someone figured out how to manufacture embossed foundation on an industrial scale. I guess it was that, the whole industrialization of the process is what turned me off and sent me toward a foundationless system. That and not knowing where any of the wax came from. IMO; My bees (only mine now ;) have never been happier.
Sorry to stray.........................it is my way...................These are just my own observations :embarassed: Take what you want, leave what you don't.
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Started with wax and wiring because at the time it was cheapest. Went to duragilt because it was fast and worked well if you know how to get foundation drawn. Had pierce plastic when it was fairly new. They all work.
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I started with wax, because most writings said it was the best. I was forced to use plastic because that was all my local supplier had when I went to buy it and he used it. Now all I use is medium plasticel.
Jim
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I use wooden double Deep frames with wax in the brood nest
Then a Queen excluder
Shallows with all plastic frames in the honey supers.
I love extracting plastic frames and really hate extracting wax frames, HATE them.
I can spin the plastic frames fast and hard without them breaking or falling apart.
Also I can use my uncapping wax to prime my plastic frames so I know where the wax has been ;)
mvh Edward :-P
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Tried plastic, went to wax, going to a combination of foundation and foundationless.
More or less the same.. I bought three hundred or so of the 4.9 mm all plastic frames and when I need to start a new hive, nuc or super i drop them in between the foundationless. two in a nuc three in a ten frame box. Normally the bees go for the foundationless first so it allows me to remove the plastic once they get a few frames well underway and drop in more foundtionless.. Once in a blue moon they will draw the plastic. When they do that I leave it in there. SO I cant really say I am totally foundationless. I also have five hives that are not regressed that have ritecell in them. slowly weeding it out..
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similar experience to tbeek. started in a commercial operation in the late 70's we used wax then tried duragilt and found that if the comb was damaged the bees wouldn't rebuild then went back to wax. i mostly use wax now but have done a little foundationless. i'd like to eventually get all my deeps foundationless and use wired foundation in my mediums.
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I have all types in my hives. Wax, plastic, foundationless, and they all work about the same for me. I been using mostly foundationless, not because the bees like it better, but rather because it is the easiest for me.
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Never having done this before I have to ask a question,
If you have plastic foundation can you harvest the comb? I like comb in my honey but it seems like it would be tricky to do so.
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If you have plastic foundation can you harvest the comb? I like comb in my honey but it seems like it would be tricky to do so.
It wont bee beautiful, but all you do is scrape it of the frame.
mvh Edward :-P
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If it were just me, I'd go regress foundationless. But people like to see full frames of comb in their nucs. So I stay w/ plasticell.
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started with wax foundation. went to foundationless. path: cheap and lazy.
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Never having done this before I have to ask a question,
If you have plastic foundation can you harvest the comb? I like comb in my honey but it seems like it would be tricky to do so.
gary get some thin surplus foundation for comb honey or no foundation. you can do like edward said but he's right, it won't be pretty.
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If you are going to eat it or feed it to others that are going to eat the wax i would never use wax that i didn't have 100% knowledge of that it is free from chemicals.
Go with foundationless and let the bees draw new fresh wax that hasn't been used for larvae either.
mvh Edward :-P
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Is there any wax free from chemicals? Including comb drawn naturally by bees? I 'think' not.
Is wax (comb) made naturally (bee drawn comb) better or less contaminated than what can be purchased? I'd have to say yes....but only to a point and depending on what and where nectar was foraged, how old the comb is, which is why combs s/b removed/replaced every 5 years or so. Candle making time?
Fresh 'cut comb' is likely the safest.
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yeah, with all the soybean and cotton farming going on down here i doubt that naturally drawn comb is much cleaner than foundation.
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I started with foundation-less frames then tried some plastic foundation a more exp beek recommended to me. I got straighter combs with my foundation-less methods so I am culling out the plastic foundation.
My first reason for not using foundation is because I appreciate the cost savings.
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I use Rite Cell plastic foundation in both the deeps and supers.
When raising queens I will use Thin Wax Foundations in my Timing Box.
I do not wire them in I use a monofilament fishing line.
These frames and foundations are never put in an extractor only the Rite Cell.
For comb honey I use thin wax foundation with support pins.
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On my deeps and supers I use dipped Pierco. It's easier for me to install is the main reason. I've messed with letting them completely draw their own for supers from starter strips but I dropped practice that due to the lack of consistency. In my new frames in comb supers I give them starter strips from cut comb foundation and they'll draw it out well normally. Once those frames have been drawn on though, leave a 1/4" of wax behind when harvesting and there's no need for starter strips next time.
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started out as a wood frame, wire and bee's wax foundation beekeeper. pretty much like this over all the other alternatives. over the years I have tried other alternatives with my most recent experiment using plasticell foundation and coating this with my own wax < folks using this with the factory applied coating may quite likely experience some problems.
almost any choice employed at the proper time of the season will work.
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I started foundationless, went to unwired foundation, went to wired small cell for brood boxes and regular foundation for honey supers. Now I use a few frames of wired small cell in brood boxes to get swarms/splits started followed by frames with starter strips and the honey supers have frames with starter strips only. 75% of the frames in all my brood boxes and honey supers are foundationless started from a starter strip of some sort of foundation.