Cutdown/Combine question

[David LaFerney]

I just split the smaller of my two hives, and combined the queenless part with my other hive.  They were originally right next to each other, and I moved the new queenright nuc a couple of feet away and scooted the big hive a few inches so that the entrance was now in the same spot that both entrances were.  The bigger hive got ALL of the foragers - they didn't even act confused, they just all started going in the big hive.  Which is exactly what I had in mind - practically a first for me.

Question 1 - the queenright nuc got 2 frames of capped brood and bees + 1/2 drawn frame of new white brood comb + 1 frame of bread + 1 frame of honey + an extra shake of nurse bees. Our flow is full on  - will enough of the nurse bees start foraging to support this hive before the stores run out or should I feed?  It has NO foragers.  I just did this yesterday and a few bees just kind of peek out the entrance like scared kids left home alone.

Question 2 - This nuc is 5 medium frames and it looks pretty populous with bees already.  It's an 8 frame box with a division board and empty frames in the unused part.  The queen is from last year - what is the chance that when the brood starts to emerge they will go into swarm mode?

[David LaFerney]

Question 1 - the queenright nuc got 2 frames of capped brood and bees + 1/2 drawn frame of new white brood comb + 1 frame of bread + 1 frame of honey + an extra shake of nurse bees. Our flow is full on  - will enough of the nurse bees start foraging to support this hive before the stores run out or should I feed?  It has NO foragers.  I just did this yesterday and a few bees just kind of peek out the entrance like scared kids left home alone.

OK, it's been a week and I can answer my own question now just in case anyone is interested.  4 days after I made up this nuc of all nurse bees and no foragers I just happened to be there when they all boiled out and oriented - twenty minutes and it was all over.  Up until then there was practically no foraging activity out of them at all, but now (one week in) they are foraging like a normal hive of this size.   

[Michael Bush]

I always give the new hive virtually all the honey, pollen and open brood and the old location (the combine) all the capped brood and little honey or pollen.  Giving them honey is less risky as far as robbing etc. over feeding.

[David LaFerney]

I always give the new hive virtually all the honey, pollen and open brood and the old location (the combine) all the capped brood and little honey or pollen.  Giving them honey is less risky as far as robbing etc. over feeding.

I probably didn't do it just right - I gave the cut down mostly 2 frames of capped brood because I thought it would get them self sufficient quicker, and I probably left too much honey in the combine.  Now that you mention it I can see why your way would be good - less honey in the combine makes them less likely to swarm, and less brood to feed gets them a running start at drawing comb and storing honey.   I'm gonna keep a close watch on the combine hive for swarming signs, and try to keep the brood nest open, and supers on.  I can already tell they're putting on weight though.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdowncombine
http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdown

A cut down split.

Concepts of a cut down: The concepts of a cut down are that you free up bees to forage because they have no brood to care for, and you crowd the bees up into the supers to maximize them drawing comb and foraging. This is especially useful for comb honey production and more so for cassette comb honey production, but will produce more honey regardless of the kind of honey you wish to produce.

This is very timing critical. It should be done shortly before the main honey flow. The purpose is to maximize the foraging population while minimizing swarming and crowding the bees into the supers.. There are variations on this, but basically the idea is to put almost all the open brood, honey and pollen and the queen in a new hive while leaving all the capped brood, some of the honey and a frame of eggs with the old hive with less brood boxes and more supers. The new hive won't swarm because it doesn't have a workforce (which all returns to the old hive). The old hive won't swarm because it doesn't have a queen or any open brood. It will take at least six weeks or more for them to raise a queen and get a decent brood nest going. Meantime, you still get a lot of production (probably a lot MORE production) from the old hive because they are not busy caring for brood. You get the old hive requeened and you get a split. Another variation is to leave the queen with the old hive and take ALL the open brood out. They won't swarm right away because the open brood is gone.

Confining the queen. Another variation on this is to just confine the queen two weeks before the flow so there is less brood to care for and free up nurse bees to forage. This also helps with Varroa as it skips a brood cycle or two. This is a good choice if you don't want more hives and you like the queen. You can put her in a regular cage or put her in a #5 hardware cloth push in cage to limit where she can lay. They will eventually chew under the hardware cloth cage, but it should set her back for a while.

Cutdown Split/Combine. This is a way to get the same number of hives, new queens and a good crop. You set up two hives right next to each other (touching would be good). Two weeks before the main flow you remove all the open brood and most of the stores from both hives, and the queen from one hive, and put it in a hive at a different location (the same yard is fine, but a different place). Then you combine all the capped brood, the other queen, or a new queen (caged), or no queen and one frame with some eggs and open brood (so they will raise a new one) into one hive in the middle of the old locations so all the returning field bees come back to the one hive.