Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Foundationless Big/Small Cells  (Read 1469 times)

salvo

  • Guest
Foundationless Big/Small Cells
« on: February 21, 2011, 12:01:14 am »
Hi Y'all,

I’m going to be a new beekeeper this spring. I want to have foundationless frames for many reasons, including one that I read regarding the smaller size of these cells, and the effect a smaller cell size has on Varroa. However, during a conversation, I was told that bees that I will get are “larger” bees due to the fact that they are products of large cell comb. These larger bees will build cells of the size they have come from,…large cells, due to the size of their own bodies.

Can someone clue me in on this phenomenon? Must I “start” my new bees on small cell foundation and wait for several generations of bees to become smaller? Should the first two or three boxes be loaded with small cell foundation? When can I go foundationless and get small cells?

Thanks,

Salvo

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19923
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Foundationless Big/Small Cells
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 12:35:47 am »
>during a conversation, I was told that bees that I will get are “larger” bees due to the fact that they are products of large cell comb. These larger bees will build cells of the size they have come from,…large cells, due to the size of their own bodies.

Sort of.  They will tend to build larger cells than they would have if they were smaller bees.  However they will build smaller cells than they would have  if they had large cell foundation.  So what you will most likely get is something between large cell and natural cell size.

>Can someone clue me in on this phenomenon?

http://bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#whatisregression

>Must I “start” my new bees on small cell foundation and wait for several generations of bees to become smaller?

Generations of bees will make little difference.  Turnovers of comb (which requires you to remove the larger comb) is what will get them smaller over time.  Comb tends to stay for a long time and the minuscule amount that cells shrink from cocoon buildup is not going to make them smaller any time soon.

> Should the first two or three boxes be loaded with small cell foundation?

Even WITH small cell foundation, they will likely not draw small cell.  In my experience the PF100s (deeps) and PF120s (mediums) from Mann Lake get drawn 4.95mm every time.  But the 4.9mm wax foundation will likely get drawn 5.1mm or so even if it's 4.9mm foundation.  It's your choice what you want to use.  Another option is Honey Super Cell ( www.honeysupercell.com )

> When can I go foundationless and get small cells?

Anytime you'll get smaller cells.

http://bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#howtogetsmall
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

salvo

  • Guest
Re: Foundationless Big/Small Cells
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 05:42:10 pm »
MB,

Lots of talk elsewhere today on this subject. I've read a lot. Six of one,...half dozen of the other.

I'm going foundationless. The bees will make what they need. I'll learn to cut out the least desireable comb as I am able. I'll also do as much as I can to maximize unfavorable conditions for mites.

Thanks for your information.

Salvo


 

anything