Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: TheMasonicHive on October 29, 2009, 04:10:08 pm
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I need some help from a beekeeper in the Philadelphia area, but I wanted to make sure I gave some background behind this post.
I am a salesman for a high rise window cleaning company. I spend my time on some of the highest roofs in the city of Detroit, and watch my guys do things that only people with the constitution of a crazy person would do. My job is to connect with property managers and building owners. Green is the word of the day, I think we all know that, so I've spearheaded initiatives in my company to embrace green technology and also to join the US Green Building Council.
I've been to many meetings where building owners and property managers have been working at getting LEED credits for their buildings by making them "greener".
I came up with the idea of doing a presentation for the USGBC and BOMA (Building Owners and Managers Association) in the Detroit area to introduce them to the concept of urban beekeeping. This would be specifically be pointed at the Green Roof initiative.
I put some feelers out there, and got an response to a Philadelphia architect that is fascinated with the idea. I will be talking with him over the course of a few days here, and would love to recommend a solid Philly beekeeper.
Any takers?
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I need some help from a beekeeper in the Philadelphia area, but I wanted to make sure I gave some background behind this post.
I am a salesman for a high rise window cleaning company. I spend my time on some of the highest roofs in the city of Detroit, and watch my guys do things that only people with the constitution of a crazy person would do. My job is to connect with property managers and building owners. Green is the word of the day, I think we all know that, so I've spearheaded initiatives in my company to embrace green technology and also to join the US Green Building Council.
I've been to many meetings where building owners and property managers have been working at getting LEED credits for their buildings by making them "greener".
I came up with the idea of doing a presentation for the USGBC and BOMA (Building Owners and Managers Association) in the Detroit area to introduce them to the concept of urban beekeeping. This would be specifically be pointed at the Green Roof initiative.
I put some feelers out there, and got an response to a Philadelphia architect that is fascinated with the idea. I will be talking with him over the course of a few days here, and would love to recommend a solid Philly beekeeper.
Any takers?
I'm not picking up on what your saying ?
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I would like a beekeeper to help out this architect and contribute to this project.
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I would like a beekeeper to help out this architect and contribute to this project.
How,what way ?
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I know people raise gardens and keep bees on roofs in cities,is this what your promoting ?
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OK heres what I'm going for.
I am trying to get the US Green Building Council and Green Roof to give LEED credits (tax breaks) to building owners that will include a honey bee hive in their Green Roof plans.
I am also trying to encourage Green Roof designers to include a hive or two in their plans.
Having an architect that is interested in this is a good starting point in this process. Educating him or others about the benefits of a hive, and alleviating concerns would be a good move in the right direction.
There have been hives on roofs for a long time, but I've never seen one in my neck of the woods. But the current situation of urban beekeeping means we should be proactive if an architect wants to design an area for a hive.
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Great project! I wish I was close enough to help out.
Scott
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Anyone????
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Don't give up. It's a great idea. I live in Washington state, so I can't be too much help. You may want to contact a local college. WSU which is located in Pullman is deeply involved in Bee Keeping Science. I suspect there are quite a few other organizations, clubs, etc that would like to be involved. It's great publicity for both the building owners and the Bee Keeping community.
Is there something you'd like us, non-Philadelphia people to do that would help?
Regards,
Tucker1
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I think a network of good stewards to beekeeping in general is great.
This site is full of them.
As this develops I'm sure that I'm going to get architects from all over the US who will be looking for a solid beekeeper!
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I put Philadelphia in the search window above - and saw a few members who are somewhere in the area. Some didn`t look very active on this forum - but that doesn`t mean they aren`t interested in bees. Why not send a PM to them to see if they can help - or possibly introduce you to their groups.
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Are you looking for a beekeeping consultant for the architect's questions
or
a beekeeper willing to put hives on a roof?
I'm not in Philly, but I am wondering what would be in it for the beekeeper for his time and hives? Hive rental fees? Building space in which to sell high priced local LEED honey?
Educating people is nice, and I don't want to sound like a crass moneygrubber, but the thought of driving into a city just to take care of a couple of hives on top of a building has absolutely no appeal to me unless there were some real $$ attached.
Maybe others might be more interested if you could expound on some of the incentives involved.
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Oh, and you may want to give it at least the weekend...we don't all read the forums all the times, probably more on the weekend. :)
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There are many options available, but I think the "what's in it for me" line of thinking has always been the wrong line of thinking.
Think of the possibilities.
What if a building owner didn't have to have the bees on site? What if each building owner contributed a single hive to your local beekeeping club?
What if a single hive was on the roof of most of your buildings in Detroit? What if our honeybees were feeding the homeless?
What if urban public schools offered beekeeping courses as a way to help families?
Sure honey isn't a cure all, but its a step in the right direction.
Putting pressure on the US Green Building Council to recognize the honeybee crisis has very very far reaching possibilities.
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Putting pressure on the US Green Building Council to recognize the honeybee crisis has very very far reaching possibilities.
I like the way you think!!! Sometimes getting your foot in the door opens many opportunities.
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They had a program on TV the other week about people keeping bees on their roof in a city illegally,i think it was New Your city. Anyways there was a big fine if they got caught. I can see problems with it,like millions of bees flying around the city stinging people,especially if they are africanized bees. I mean they would have to fly a long way to gather enough honey if there were a few thousand hives in a city.
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Do you really think there is a stinging threat? Foragers have no interest in humans and would rather run away than sting.
Its the non beekeeping person who is messing around with the hive on the roof that has a problem.
You mentioned about people keeping them "illegally" so the question becomes how do we make it legal or how do you comply with existing laws.
I think you've got this idea that as soon as a city becomes a city plant life, flowers, and food sources for bees cease to exist in abundance, but I just don't think that's the case.
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Wowwwww...What the ?????????????Sorry...I can't comment on this!
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hahaha, then why did you?
Be honest, do you people think I'm nuts or something? Doesn't this seem like a feasible idea?
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I for one do not think you ere nuts, maybe a little eccentric :-D Its nice to see that someone can think outside the box. If you can sell the idea of provisions in the design of a singe building or a community of buildings to a architect to include beekeeping, I would have to think it is a win,win. The bees would not have to be kept on the roofs, necessarily but it would probably be the safest for the bees because it would be out of sight, out of mind to the public that could cause problems.
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I guess I don't see how I could be seen as marginally eccentric either.
The USGBC is strong, and every year independent studies project designers will be embracing LEED more and more as the government (lets face it, we have a "green" White House...for better or for worse) gives building owners tax incentives.
You see a lush rural landscape and you think "This would be a nice place for a hive" but SOON you will see rooftop gardens, and shrubs.
Whats missing here?
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Do you really think there is a stinging threat? Foragers have no interest in humans and would rather run away than sting.
Its the non beekeeping person who is messing around with the hive on the roof that has a problem.
You mentioned about people keeping them "illegally" so the question becomes how do we make it legal or how do you comply with existing laws.
I think you've got this idea that as soon as a city becomes a city plant life, flowers, and food sources for bees cease to exist in abundance, but I just don't think that's the case.
Africanized bees are spreading across the country and they breed with all other bees. They attack things making noise, like people on lawn mowers. I don't think Cities will take the chance on getting billions of these bees in their city. They kill enough people out side the cities and hurt people real bad.
http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_scutellata
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%201&document_soid=IN790&document_version=45452
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN790
http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/africanbees.html
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It is my hope that they will take an educated chance, the same way a farmer takes that chance in a rural area.
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Africanized bees are spreading across the country and they breed with all other bees.
Come on Joelel look at where he is located. Those bees can not survive their climate. Besides say that some bees were imported to that area that were bred with the Africanized breed. One, they would more than likely not survive the winter. Two, any competent beekeep, working the hives would pick up on the aggressiveness of the colony any ratify the situation before it becomes billions as you quote.
Regardless of what the govt. offers to be a incentive for green building designs. I for one think this is a shoe in to open avenues for more beekeeps to provide much needed help, in finding locations in urban areas to start apiaries. These areas could be loaded with plant life that could sustain the bees. If the occupants are educated in the importance of the bees that are kept there and what is not considered a bee just because they have a stinger,as part of their ownership or rental agreements it could be very doable.
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FURTHERMORE if you want to make a climate argument, though I'm relatively safe due to the cold here in Michigan, does that mean that you shouldn't be allowed to keep bees in Southern states because there is an astronomically higher probability of that happening there.
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Hi,
No you are not nuts. My wife is a LEED certified architect in NJ. I think it is a good idea and I will ask her to inquire. It might be advantageous if the LEED certifying powers got pressure from more than one source. When my wife was taking the certifying exam I was perusing the requirements. Some of the stuff sounds a little over the top, like "dry" toilets. UGH. Also, other things just raise the cost of construction etc. But under the current "regime" green is good, even if it is over the top and really has dubious benefits. Still, in all, LEED certification is the new reality and certain agencies are required to get the LEED points in order to qualify for financing etc. I will keep you in m,ind and if she hits any pay dirt I will let you know. I like your thinking on this.
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Africanized bees are spreading across the country and they breed with all other bees.
Come on Joelel look at where he is located. Those bees can not survive their climate. Besides say that some bees were imported to that area that were bred with the Africanized breed. One, they would more than likely not survive the winter. Two, any competent beekeep, working the hives would pick up on the aggressiveness of the colony any ratify the situation before it becomes billions as you quote.
Regardless of what the govt. offers to be a incentive for green building designs. I for one think this is a shoe in to open avenues for more beekeeps to provide much needed help, in finding locations in urban areas to start apiaries. These areas could be loaded with plant life that could sustain the bees. If the occupants are educated in the importance of the bees that are kept there and what is not considered a bee just because they have a stinger,as part of their ownership or rental agreements it could be very doable.
Where one breed of honey bee can live,all can. It may be harder for one then an other but fact is,the Africanized just haven't migrated that far north yet. Beside this,Africanized bees are crossed with other breed of bees and will adapt to the other breed genetics very easy. Africanized is,the African bee crossed with any other bee.
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The migration of the Africanized strain of honeybee seems to have halted near a certain climatic barrier. We consider ourselves lucky up north in that regard, however, we have other ailments to contend with. I support all LEEDS orientated projects.
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There are many options available, but I think the "what's in it for me" line of thinking has always been the wrong line of thinking.
Think of the possibilities.
What if a building owner didn't have to have the bees on site? What if each building owner contributed a single hive to your local beekeeping club?
What if a single hive was on the roof of most of your buildings in Detroit? What if our honeybees were feeding the homeless?
What if urban public schools offered beekeeping courses as a way to help families?
Sure honey isn't a cure all, but its a step in the right direction.
Putting pressure on the US Green Building Council to recognize the honeybee crisis has very very far reaching possibilities.
I'm still confused as to what you are looking for...a beekeeper in Philly or a beekeeping advocate?
Do you donate your LEED green architectural work for the good of the city and the environment? That "green" industry has some big money in it with garden roofs and all that.... (I'm sure that it is far less than I think and its probably pretty hard-scrabble, but somebody pays a lot for all those services)
My point is that you've narrowed your pool of possible beekeepers to a very very small pool of beekeepers by limiting it to only the 100% altruistic.
I'm not saying it is a stupid idea, and I think that it is very possible and there are probably those who want to participate. But I'd rather discuss ALL the options, altruistic or not, so that it is realistic for those donating (or investing) their time, money, and hives.
Rick
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As of 2002, Africanized honey bees had spread from Brazil south to northern Argentina and north to South and Central America, Trinidad (West Indies), Mexico, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Florida and southern California. Their expansion stopped for a time at eastern Texas, possibly due to the large number of European-bee beekeepers in the area. However, discoveries of the bees in southern Louisiana indicate this species of bee has penetrated this barrier [2], or has come as a swarm aboard a ship. In June 2005, it was discovered that the bees had penetrated the border of Texas and had spread into southwest Arkansas. On September 11, 2007, Commissioner Bob Odom of the Department of Agriculture and Forestry said that Africanized honey bees established themselves in the New Orleans area.[3] In February 2009, africanized honeybees were found in southern Utah.[4][5]
In tropical climates they compete effectively against European bees and, at their peak rate of expansion, they spread north at a rate of almost two kilometers (about one mile) a day. There were discussions about slowing the spread by placing large numbers of docile European-strain hives in strategic locations, particularly at the Isthmus of Panama, but various national and international agricultural departments were unable to prevent the bees' expansion. Current knowledge of the genetics of these bees suggests that such a strategy, had it been attempted, would not have been successful.[6]
As the Africanized honey bee migrates further north, colonies are interbreeding with European honey bees. There are now relatively stable geographic zones in which either Africanized bees dominate, a mix of Africanized and European bees is present, or only non-Africanized bees are found (as in southern South America or northern North America).
Africanized honey bees abscond (abandon the hive and any food stores to start over in a new location) more readily than European honey bees. This is not necessarily a severe loss in tropical climates where plants bloom all year but in more temperate climates it can leave the colony with insufficient stores to survive the winter. Thus Africanized bees are expected to be a hazard mostly in the Southern States of the United States, reaching as far north as the Chesapeake Bay in the east. The cold-weather limits of the Africanized bee have driven some professional bee breeders from Southern California into the harsher wintering locales of the northern Sierra Nevada and southern Cascade range. This is a more difficult area in which to prepare bees for early pollination placement, such as is required for the production of almonds. The reduced available winter forage in northern California means that bees must be fed for early spring buildup.
Curiously, their arrival in Central America is a threat to the ancient art of keeping stingless bees in log gums even though they do not interbreed or directly compete with the stingless bees. The honey productivity of the africanized bees so far exceeds the productivity of the native stingless bees that economic pressures force beekeepers to switch. Africanized honey bees are considered an invasive species in many regions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee)
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zee artiste de zee cut and paste
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:piano: Gets cold in Utah,wonder if African bees can stand it. Yelp,they were found there.
:soapbox:
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:pinkelephant:
:deadhorse:
:locked:
:camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp:
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Lets have a little Geography Lesson Joelel. Would you look at the map and repeat, Huh southern Utah and south west Utah border Nevada and Arizona. Would you say that it is very much warmer there than Michigan where TheMasonicHive is located. :deadhorse: Once again any competent beekeep, working the hives would pick up on the aggressiveness of the colony. Lets not derail the good intentions of what what this post is about.
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try montgomery county beekeepers association or search pastate beekeper site
http://montcobee1.farming.officelive.com/default.aspx (http://montcobee1.farming.officelive.com/default.aspx)
http://www.pastatebeekeepers.org/ (http://www.pastatebeekeepers.org/)
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Scadsobees I don't understand how what I'm asking for is confusing.
I'd imagine most people who are beekeeping advocates are beekeepers too, and I'd imagine that ALL beekeepers are beekeeping advocates.
There is an architect interested in the project in Philly. I am wondering if there are Philly beekeepers who would be interested in helping him with a roof design that could include a hive, and once the project is complete to actually put a colony on the roof to try out the concept.
Its a two fold thing. I can convince designers and building owners that its green and feasible, but on the other hand I would love to see these pioneers to get LEED credits for their contribution to the beekeeping community which I'd think I'd be preaching to the choir if I said that I think they should!
Joelel, the problem with your line of thinking is that even if they DID become Africanized it doesn't get rid of the need of a pollinator. If you are so concerned maybe you should destroy your colonies and help the greater good of preventing Africanization. You won't...why? Because its an issue we will have to learn to adapt to. It can't be stopped, so its a non issue.
Your line of thinking seems to take an approach that will eventually lead to beekeeping being illegal in the US.
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I think it's a grand idea. Unfortunatley I'm in Missouri and am unable to Mentor a Philly hive. But If you get any bites in West Central Missouri give me a holler.
Joelel, this is where a mentor could come in handy. To Remove and replace aggressive bees. I see no real problem keeping bees on a rooftop. My sole concern would be the pest control agency's most companies hire to protect the outside of their buildings. That could kill a hive in a hurry. I know the company I work for sprays the exterior foundations.. But with proper guidance, there is no reason this can't work.
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Scadsobees I don't understand how what I'm asking for is confusing.
I'd imagine most people who are beekeeping advocates are beekeepers too, and I'd imagine that ALL beekeepers are beekeeping advocates.
There is an architect interested in the project in Philly. I am wondering if there are Philly beekeepers who would be interested in helping him with a roof design that could include a hive, and once the project is complete to actually put a colony on the roof to try out the concept.
Ok, I think I understand now...
I think it could be a nice advertising gimmick for the company that inhabits the buildings, as well as for the architectural firm. It won't really save any energy though...
A company here does something similar (not rooftop) with bees that is a bit unique. They pay a local beekeeper to maintain some hives, extract, and bottle the honey, and then they give it away as gifts.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2005/11/15/honey-by-herman-miller/ (http://www.inhabitat.com/2005/11/15/honey-by-herman-miller/)
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Scadsobees,
LEED stands for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. This may not be a low emissions or green energy initiative, but it would certainly qualify as Environmental Design.
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Ok, I don't know much about the LEED stuff, so that helps.
Believe it or not, I'm really trying to help :roll: :-D.
I'm trying to get to the tangible benefits for any beekeeper involved, to make it more attractive to any area beekeepers.
The architect and the building owner get the bragging rights, interest, money? (from design?) and possibly more customers by having the beehive on the roof. Honestly, there is not much more than that too to get people to go with LEED certification in the first place. (anybody can be energy efficient, and the smart ones will be anyway)
I think what Herman Miller does here is a win for both the company and the beekeeper, and an architect/green building owner as well as the beekeeper could benefit from a similar arrangement.
And why not? If they have a green roof they are probably paying a company to care for that, and what do they get from that but a few bushels of grass clippings? This way they'd have some unique, cool, useful gifts to give away...
That being said...this could go places...I'm thinking chickens...a small pen of chickens, fed by scraps left over from the lunch room, the hay could be shredded paper. A pygmy goat or two to graze down the greenery up there, producing some milk. Get a small compost heap for the scraps that the chickens can't finish... :-D
Rick
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Oh I absolutely understand that you're trying to help. I just think it was a lack of me communicating my goals properly.
I just think that I wouldn't be hard pressed to find beekeepers willing to do this, but having the backing from the beekeeping community, and good stewards of the hobby representing us fairly and properly to a building owner is by far the most important hurdle to jump.
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Scadsobees I don't understand how what I'm asking for is confusing.
I'd imagine most people who are beekeeping advocates are beekeepers too, and I'd imagine that ALL beekeepers are beekeeping advocates.
There is an architect interested in the project in Philly. I am wondering if there are Philly beekeepers who would be interested in helping him with a roof design that could include a hive, and once the project is complete to actually put a colony on the roof to try out the concept.
Its a two fold thing. I can convince designers and building owners that its green and feasible, but on the other hand I would love to see these pioneers to get LEED credits for their contribution to the beekeeping community which I'd think I'd be preaching to the choir if I said that I think they should!
Joelel, the problem with your line of thinking is that even if they DID become Africanized it doesn't get rid of the need of a pollinator. If you are so concerned maybe you should destroy your colonies and help the greater good of preventing Africanization. You won't...why? Because its an issue we will have to learn to adapt to. It can't be stopped, so its a non issue.
Your line of thinking seems to take an approach that will eventually lead to beekeeping being illegal in the US.
Do you think honey bees are the only thing that pollinates ? By the way,I intend to keep African bees out breed. That's what we need all bee keepers to focus on,not pollinating flowers in the cities.
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Joelel,
Who said anything about this being the focus of beekeepers? Its almost like you have something against the idea of someone working a hive in the inner city.
How does my proposed idea work at all against the idea of pollinating crops in rural areas? Keep your bees there! Migrate them! Stress them! Do what you will!
As for me, I'll focus on something being overlooked.
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Africanized bees are spreading across the country and they breed with all other bees. They attack things making noise, like people on lawn mowers. I don't think Cities will take the chance on getting billions of these bees in their city. They kill enough people out side the cities and hurt people real bad.
http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html (http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_scutellata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_scutellata)
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%201&document_soid=IN790&document_version=45452 (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%201&document_soid=IN790&document_version=45452)
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN790 (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN790)
http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/africanbees.html (http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/africanbees.html)
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Do you have any real numbers on actual Africanized bees that have killed people in this country? People that have had an allergic reaction to a bee sting don't count.
I think incorporating bees into a green rooftop would be a great idea.There are a lot of people in the inner cities that manage to gather large quantities of honey. Many times it is a better habitat for the beees with many water resources and a lot of irrigated gardening you may not find in a dry spell outside the city.
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Joelel,
Who said anything about this being the focus of beekeepers?
NOT ME,NOT YOU,NOT ANYONE.I SAID>By the way,I intend to keep African bees out breed. That's what we need all bee keepers to focus on,not pollinating flowers in the cities.
Its almost like you have something against the idea of someone working a hive in the inner city.
Your the one who brought up pollination. I just pointed out honey bees are not the only pollinators.We don't need them in the city for pollination or anything else. To try to get billions of bees in a city for any reason is :fishhit:.In Houston they call bee people every year several times to remove bees out of their houses.
How does my proposed idea work at all against the idea of pollinating crops in rural areas?
I NEVER SAID IT DID.
Keep your bees there! Migrate them! Stress them! Do what you will!
You need to read the links i posted on Africanized bees.
As for me, I'll focus on something being overlooked.
I don't think you do if you ignor the danger of Africanized bees.
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Africanized bees are spreading across the country and they breed with all other bees. They attack things making noise, like people on lawn mowers. I don't think Cities will take the chance on getting billions of these bees in their city. They kill enough people out side the cities and hurt people real bad.
http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html (http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_scutellata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_scutellata)
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%201&document_soid=IN790&document_version=45452 (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%201&document_soid=IN790&document_version=45452)
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN790 (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN790)
http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/africanbees.html (http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/africanbees.html)
Do you have any real numbers on actual Africanized bees that have killed people in this country? People that have had an allergic reaction to a bee sting don't count.
I think incorporating bees into a green rooftop would be a great idea.There are a lot of people in the inner cities that manage to gather large quantities of honey. Many times it is a better habitat for the beees with many water resources and a lot of irrigated gardening you may not find in a dry spell outside the city.
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Rather people die because of allergic reaction or not,we don't need these billions of Africanized bees flying around our cities increasing the chance of people being stung,as we don't need them in the country. Fact is,we will never get rid of them but we can do our best to keep the out breed as much as possable. People who keep bees hanging around for green or honey sure are not going to want to worry about if their bees get Africanized or not. They need to know the danger. If you want to go green,put a load of dirt and plant grass on your roof.
This person said this about his county,While it is true that Africanized honey bees are highly defensive insects, the threat they pose to human populations has been exaggerated. Approximately 40 people die in this country each year as a result of stinging insects. To avoid trouble with bees and wasps, here are some safety suggestions:
http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html (http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html)
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Well, if the african bees are still spreading so fast, we'd be much better with domesticated and controlled bees in our cities rather than letting the africanized ones loose. Sorry, but that threat, while still a threat, is way overblown.
So I think that would be the least of concerns.
I'd be much more concerned with swarming. And the bees are in swarming in the city without beehives around, I think it would be an advantage to get a beeks in the city and at least then they know somebody nearby will help when a swarm shows up.
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Well, if the african bees are still spreading so fast, we'd be much better with domesticated and controlled bees in our cities rather than letting the africanized ones loose. Sorry, but that threat, while still a threat, is way overblown.
So I think that would be the least of concerns.
I'd be much more concerned with swarming. And the bees are in swarming in the city without beehives around, I think it would be an advantage to get a beeks in the city and at least then they know somebody nearby will help when a swarm shows up.
#1) You don't keep bees from getting Africanized, most will not know when they do until they try to collect honey and get attacked,then they have to re-queen.
#2) You don't keep them from swarming,so now we have Africanized bees in cracks of houses and buildings all over the city,that can NOT be controlled. This green bee stuff will do nothing but cause big problems for cities. It's tons of work working bees to start with,then you have to control the breed besides and chase bees all over the city and catch them,tear peoples homes and buildings apart to get the hives,I don't think so. Anyone who would approve bees in the city fell off a turnip truck.
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Joelel,
Answer me very clearly here. How is beekeeping in a rural setting not just as risky as for an urban setting when it comes to Africanized bees?
Heck, when a hive is 20 floors above where pedestrians are I'd say that they have a lower likelihood of coming across a hive that's Africanized.
You can't make this about apocoloyptic worst case scenario. What if they Africanize? Sure, it could happen, but that same argument won't stop you from keeping them in rural settings.
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Joelel,
Answer me very clearly here. How is beekeeping in a rural setting not just as risky as for an urban setting when it comes to Africanized bees?
Because of Africanized bees,beekeeping is not an easy thing. It use to be we could just raise bees and take care of them and sell honey. Now if we get a mean Africanized hive we must out breed them. Any good bee keeper will do this,anyone who sells queens and packages will do this if they care. Yes they are risky in the urban setting. In the city we will be dealing with this problem on a much bigger scale,millions of people and millions of bees that can not be controlled. They will swarm and that can not be controlled. We have a mean hive now and in the spring it will be split into 5 nucs and re-queened with 5 new queens.
Heck, when a hive is 20 floors above where pedestrians are I'd say that they have a lower likelihood of coming across a hive that's Africanized.
Bees fly everywhere,not just around the hive. If a person walks into the middle of where they are collecting pollen and nectar and disturb them,they have been known to attack.Africanized bees are aggressive and attack sounds,there are all kind of noises in cities that are not in the country.
You can't make this about apocoloyptic worst case scenario. What if they Africanize? Sure, it could happen, but that same argument won't stop you from keeping them in rural settings.
Not if they Africanize,they will,they are everywhere in the south and are moving north into states where it freezes two or three months a year. In the south,in the rural settings many of us deal with it and re-queen but starting back in the 80s when this started,many bee keepers quit and still do. As they move feather north more will quit.Many bee keepers who sell queens and packages have moved north to avoid them for a few yrs.
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joelel, many people keep bees in urban settings. new york city has roof top beekeepers. google it. i can think of no good reason to discourage people from keeping bees in any setting that works including urban/city settings.
rather than telling people they are nuts for wanting to try a thing, we should be encouraging people to keep bees, educate the public, and enjoy the hobby. not everyone can live in a rural setting, but beekeeping is something that can be done almost anywhere.
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Actually I think you'll find that, as africaniszed bees move farther north their genetics will become more and more diluted due to breeding with more docile breeds. The more docile bees we keep, the better chances we have. I say forget worrying about 'em and raise more bees!
Scott
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It is in the nature of some to be contrarians. As we all look for the good it causes us to ponder more deeply as to just what our position is. I still encourage this endeavor.
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Hay if you want to flood our cities with bees,be my guest.This is my last post on the subject. I wouldn't flood our cities with bees that were not Africianzed.Cities is no place to keep bees.
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Cities is no place for bees
i'll remember to mention that to the bees next time i get called to pick up a swarm in town. i guess they have not heard.
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:fishhit: is a bliss
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keep doing what we do. ignore the naysayers.
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If african bees are such a concern in cities, then they only belong on very rural farms away from people. And we have to exterminate all swarms and feral hives.
And a hobby would die, only to be run by experts. I wouldn't be a beekeeper without hives in my suburban backyard.
Sorry. I don't buy that.
In fact, while a hive or two may get hot, at least a beekeeper can control it by replacing the queen, to some extent. Can't do that in a wild hive, which there are plenty of in the cities (I get enough calls!!).
While I have some minor reservations about this endeavor, africanization is pretty low on that concern list for me. But you can be concerned if you like, it is a free country after all! :buttkick: :devilbanana:
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Well, at least now when all you country folk start going on about the, ah, "differences" of city folk, we have some ammunition to fight back with! :)
And, yes Kathy, I have seen the light.
I keep a hive in the city and they are happy and healthy and the gentlest bees you can find. I imagine that if they ever become africanized I would manage them the same way a "country" beekeeper would, just like I manage for SHB and swarms and mites the same way they do. . . Managing a hive is managing a hive regardless of where it is located.
"While it is true that Africanized honey bees are highly defensive insects, the threat they pose to human populations has been exaggerated. "
"There are now relatively stable geographic zones in which either Africanized bees dominate, a mix of Africanized and European bees is present, or only non-Africanized bees are found (as in southern South America or northern North America)."
From material already posted in this thread, and found elsewhere on the net, Africanized bees, while a beekeeping issue, are already becoming normalized and lessening as a threat. As long as beekeepers manage responsibly, in the country or the city, they are an issue that can be minimized and controled to the same extent as other beekeeping problems.
I think hives on top of a building are a great idea, as long as someone is responsible for them. Whether the building management sets up a relationship with a beekeeper or with a resident of the building, or a coop, or a neighbor, who knows. The finances could certainly be negotiated between the interested parties. Keep up the good work and good luck!
edit: I obviously don't know how to use the quote thing yet! :) Maybe I did just fall off the turnip truck . . . lol