Queen Problems need to requeen need advice, source

[TLWalters]

Hi, New to this forum.  Having queen probs much like in the 2001 log book.

Here's my situation.
 I have a background in Entomology and always wanted to try beekeeping. My husband and I finally got around to it and took a 10 week course at WSU Ext.

Started two hives this spring from package bees.   #1 lost the queen end of April. Swapped out a frame with new eggs from hive #2 with laying queen, but no luck with getting #1 to raise a queen.
 
Lots of cells with multiple eggs and #1 also seems to have more bees than the one with a queen #2. They also have some larvae. But no queen or incipient queen cell from the frame I added.  Still lots of cells with multiple eggs. (Laying worker)
 
#2 - hive with a queen, seems to have fewer numbers. Initially had brood but I'm not seeing new brood, not so many eggs either. Some capped. One frame shows something that might be the beginning of a queen cell, but can't tell yet. Also several cells with multiple eggs.  Whats up with that?? Another laying worker like the other hive?
 Also saw some evidence in this hive of chalk brood, but that seems to have disappeared. Of course there's not really much for brood right now either.
 
Neither hive seems to be drawing out the bare foundation. I initially started both hives with drawn frames. Substituted some undrawn frames for some older drawn ones. (Bought a lot of used materials ). The old ones didn't have any eggs or brood so thought maybe it would stimulate the hive to have some undrawn frames as well. Something I read.
 
Both hives are only using about 4-5 frames in the mid part of the bottom box.
 
SO, I'm thinking of requeening and combining the two hives. This year its more important to us to just get the bees going before winter, and not really concerned about honey. I had hoped to have 4 hives by next year -- thinking ours might swarm, but so far we seem to be on the hairy edge of loosing them both.
 
I am not really seeing any disease evidence from the used equip (my first thought until this second queen began to falter) but am wondering about these queens.  I can buy some locally but they would be the same source as originally and I just wonder if that will be more of the same.

So as I'm in N. Idaho (No Not Iowa. Idaho is the one thats by Washington and Oregon )  any ideas on Queen sources?
All input is very appreciated.
Thanks!

[amymcg]

hi There, just noticed your location. I hope they find those kids.


As far as queens go, I think you probably have the right idea about combining them and requeening.  I'm sure some of the others will have some suggestions on how to actually go about doing it.

Who did you get your bees from? You may not want to go back to them for a queen.  have you contacted them regarding the queens? They might replace them for you.

[thegolfpsycho]

If you have laying workers, it's a bit more complicated than just introducing a new queen.  If you have a queen, and do the combine, it may work the problem out.  If both colonys are queenless, and have laying workers, they won't accept a new queen.  There are some threads on laying workers in the forum.  Do a search and get an idea of what lays ahead.

As far as queens, there are plenty of places to get them.  I'm having good luck with the queens I got from Kohnen in Glenn Callifornia.

Wish I could help more, but gotta run

[Jerrymac]

I am wondering if hive #1 developed a laying worker and then you transfered the queen from hive #2 when you switched the brood over. Hive #1 then killed the queen. So now Hive #2 being queenless developed a laying worker. And they are also making Queen cells because they are queenless.

Might read a little more here;

http://beemaster.com/beebbs/viewtopic.php?t=2954

[TLWalters]

Hi,
Thanks for the information. I hope they find those kids too and in good shape. Its a strange situation. Lots of conflicting info. Lots of cell time in the family.... a mess.

Anyway I know the queen in #2 is still in there. She's marked and I've seen her every time I open the hive. When I moved that frame I made sure there were no bees on it. So she's not been moved. The original package queen in #1 was killed within a few days of placing them in the hive.

Queen #2 is still alive just that both hives have cells with multiple eggs. I'll look at the laying worker info.

The packages came from Can AM in California. Yes, maybe I'll call them on Tuesday and see whats up.  A man in Spokane carries queens but all are from Can Am so am reluctant to requeen from them.

Thanks!

[Michael Bush]

I would do a shake out to combine them.  Move all the of the laying worker hive's equipment to the other hive, Shake every frame out in front of the queenright hive, and give the empty combs to the queenright hive.  When they are all shaken out the laying worker hive's bees will move into the queenright hive, but they will be more likely to accept, and not kill, the queen in the queenright hive.

Then after a few days when they have all settled in, you can get a new queen, remove the old queen, wait oevernight, and introduce the new queen.  Preferably in a push in cage.  But a candy cage introduction will probably work.