Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Cindi on December 18, 2006, 10:48:27 am
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So, yesterday the sun came out, the first time in a very long time. It was pretty cold. I watched the weather and the sun on the apiary. Lots of it.
About 1:00 P.M. I decided that it looked good enough for me myself to go out and tend the bees. Mixed the s.s. and O.A. and off I went, syringe in hand, blue gloves on. The bees don't seem to mind the latex blue gloves that I wear, I haven't yet been stung when wearing them when I don't want my fingers mucky or sticky, and man can they get mucky, sticky with bee stuff sometimes. That propolis is a humdinger!!!
I had 5 hives to check. Started on the south side. Oh dear, very poor colony. Too bad, it was one of the strongest, had only 2 frames of bees all huddled on the south side wall. I drizzled about 10 ml on them anyways. I have further thought with this colony, but that is another story. Went into the second hive and third. Both looked pretty strong with 6 frames of bees or so, each one was in a different position in the hive than each other. Interesting how each hive clustered in a different spot inside. Anyways, 25 ml each for them. They certainly are not the strong, strong winter clusters that Finsky posted his hives at. But I think that they will be fine. Hive #4 was dead. Narry a bee alive, it was a sad sight, many bees just frozen in space, it made me sad. But I was not sure if this colony would have made it anyways, it was very very weak to begin with. I probably should have united it, but just didn't do it cause of terrible weather. Colony #5, which was s swarm that I caught in a town about 40 km away last summer was doing great too. 6 frames of bees, more full than the other colonies. 25 ml for them. That was the end of the treatment. I hope that it blows any varroa mites that may still be in the colonies right off the face of the planet. I have a vengence for this predator, and I have no bones about speaking it to the world or letting the varroa know too.
I cleaned out dead bees that were on the bottomboard and moved the entrance reducer and removed dead bees from behind it too. The bees were not overly annoyed when I was working with them. Just a few that wanted to give me their two cents worth, but no stings. I think they like the blue gloves, LOL. So, that was the treatment that I should have done about 2 weeks ago, but it was done. Great day. Cindi
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Dindi, Your colonies seems to be very small. Perhaps you have not gived enough room for brood and honey. Or have mite dimished colonies in autumn?
How many boxes you had in midsummer?
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Finsky, I know that my colonies are very small and it is a sad thing. Yes it is a direct result of the varroa mite. I know that for 100% positive. I had an extremely bad problem with the varroa mite. Worse than I ever knew and I lost 6 colonies totalled by the end of the summer, they dwindled down to nothing. I did not even knkow that it was so bad until it was way too late Finsky. Next year, I will be ready for these demons. There was no other disease present, I always looked for AFB and EFB.
I had 10 strong colonies as I said before, dwindled down to these 4, not so strong. I cannot help it, it was ignorance on my part and I admit it freely. The colonies all had 2 full boxes of bees last summer. and I mean they were very full. I kept supering them, they did not swarm. One colony was so strong that I made nucs from it and a split. Now maybe I made a mistake with it too. Maybe I split and made too many nucs, but I don't think so, I only made 2 nucs from it and one split. They were all very strong last summer, no doubt.
Gotta go make breakfast for kids. Great day. Cindi
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Hi Cindy, Please let us know the mite drop results. Curious how well it works for you. Keep at 'em.
Ray
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hi cindi,
be thankful you don't have trophilaelaps mites. i lost about 30 colonies before i realized what was causing it!
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be thankful you don't have trophilaelaps mites. i lost about 30 colonies before i realized what was causing it!
Tig, I googled trophilaelaps mites. Nothing came up in the search. Can you redefine what it is, known by some other common name?
Tig, define, tell me what it looks like, what are sypmtoms that you know probably know so well, it is a horrible thing to lose so many colonies for sure. I'm sure that you now will know how to watch for this parasite.
Does anyone else know what mite Tig is speaking about?
Great day. Cindi
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>be thankful you don't have trophilaelaps mites.
You shouldn't use that kind of language here. ;)
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Come on Michael, that is not nice cause I don't get it. Cindi
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Why would you do an oxalic treatment this time of the year, in the cold? I would think the last thing you would want, is get your bees wet in freeezing weather.
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All I know about it is, that it is mite threatning bees in Vietnam and the contries around it. I found a Korean website but could not read it. It must be a nasty parasitic animal. I found no pictures.
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Maybe someone out there will be able to provide some strong and good information about this trophilaelaps mite. It must be a nasty indeed. Cindi
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That bug got started in S. China!
Her you can see what it looks like and pray that it stays where it belongs!
http://drone.cyberbee.net/gallery/varroa/twomites
Regards,
Trot
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Why would you do an oxalic treatment this time of the year, in the cold? I would think the last thing you would want, is get your bees wet in freeezing weather.
First off, it is important that you understand that I live in a very mild climate. We are not in freezing weather right at this time. If it was freezing outside, I would not have done the O.A. treatment. That would probably not have been very good for the bees, in my opinion.
The second thing. During a "winterizing your bees" seminar that I took with one of my bee course instructors that keeps about 1,000 hives, we were advised to do our O.A. treatment on December 1, or thereabouts. In our climate, there can still be brood present up until November, even late November. So, it is prudent that the bees not be treated until we are assured there is no brood in the hive present. this would be around the beginning of December. Due to extremely unfavourable weather, meaning hard, hard rain and wind for such a long time, I was unable to go out to the apiary and give the O.A. treatment until yesterday. It was fairly warm yesterday, I knew for sure that there was no brood present and it was a safe time to do this. Due to the fact that it was not freezing out, and the small amount of liquid drizzled over the bees, I do not think that it would have chilled the bees very much at all, and I used warm syrup, it was not cold. This small amount of liquid would have been warmed up pretty quickly by the temperature in the cluster (which was not even a really tight cluster, they were rather loosely clustered).
I trust the advice of my course instructor about what the season is like here and the appropriate time for treatment. I hope that this clarifies my actions of applying O.A. when the weather is COOL. Great day. Cindi
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That bug got started in S. China!
Her you can see what it looks like and pray that it stays where it belongs!
http://drone.cyberbee.net/gallery/varroa/twomites
Regards,
Trot
I don't think that there is anything more ugly than parasites. Insects and many others are good looking for the most part. The blood suckers of all type are disgusting and I believe have no place on earth. For instance, tics, what damage they can do if they inflict that terrible disease of Lyme's on the human.
We gotta hope that the lesser mite does not move around the entire world. Wonder how it is combat in Asia? I am going to look at this site of cyberbee in-depth one day. Great day. Cindi
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Cindi, I am sure you know what your doing. I am just curious and love to ask stupid questions. When I first read your post it said "it was pretty cold", I should have read ENTIRE post. I apolgize. I think that I worry about my bees to much. Keep us posted on how they make out.
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Cindi, I am sure you know what your doing.
Newbee, you are just wrong :-D. Cindy knows 100,00% what he is doing.
You need not to handle bees "in freezing air" if you polish mites away with another methods, and they are many. In Finland we wait freezing air that we get snow.
Trickling is succesful and easy method. In New Zealand they are in the piss because they have no brood brake.
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Finsky, thanks for clarifying what I already said. "Cindi, I am sure you know what your doing."
I did not read her entire post. My fault for jumping the gun.
It seems you get great pleasure from saying I am wrong (OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER)
:mrgreen:
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Awe, Newbie, I am just learning, just like everyone else. I do not profess to know everything, I hope I never gave that impression. I am sure that I could learn for the rest of my life and still believe that I would be short about 100 years in the process of understanding all that I need to know. It is a great thing to be curious. If that was not a common human trait, think of what a horribly boring world this would be. I listen, I take advice, I summarize advices and try to make the best of all that I can. This is what life is all about, becoming better and better and hope in the end that we attained even close to that we wish to aspire to.
An excellent piece of advice: -- always try to get all the facts, or as many as one can, then form an opinion. This I have learned, over and over and over: but still I do not quite get the right opinion most of the time. I'm sorry that you did not read all of my post, and formed an opinion that caused a little conflict within and without here. I many times only glimpse things over, and many end products have been not so good. This particularly comes when I don't read instructions about making things, be it in the kitchen, bee medications, assembly of items, or plain and simply anything. then I have to re-read so many times to try and undo an "opinion" or "method." Sounds a little gunky, but that is what I am all about. You have a great day newbee101. Keep on keeping on. Cindi
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:) :) :) :) ;)
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I think you should let Finsky know you are a she and not a he.
Cindy knows 100,00% what he is doing.
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I think you should let Finsky know you are a she and not a he.
Cindy knows 100,00% what he is doing.
Newbie, now that is funny. I noticed that he called me a "he" but I thought it was only a typing error. Maybe he does think I am a guy, but I do think that my name (well in our English language) is feminine, well, maybe not. I don't know, I don't care. I can be anything anyone wants me to be. I can conform, it matters not a whit. LOL. Great day. Cindi
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I think you should let Finsky know you are a she and not a he.
Yes, sorry, I know that she is she. It was typing error.
In Finnish language we use only "hän" = he, she . And about friends and animals we say "se" = it.
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I do not profess to know everything, I hope I never gave that impression.
I like myself if I give the impression that I know everything. "Modesty is not my virtue "
But 5 years ago I lost 60% of my hives. On reson was dry summer but at least as big reason was that I had fluvinate resistant varroa population. I had 18 hives in previous spring and next spring I had 6 normal colonies and 5 coffee cup size. In autumn I started to use trickling.
Still with 6 normal hive and 5 coffee cup hive I got more honey than with those 18 hives. I took into use all the best tricks what I knew about beekeeping. And after that I changed whole my system and my yields jumped 80% and have stayed on that new level. - You perhaps know that in front of conpulsion even bleep lays eggs.
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lmao good one michael! a few weeks after honeyflow i treated my colonies with apistan because i had some varroa mites which i got from a neighboring beekeeper. as is my usual practice, i took brood and comb samples to the university of the philippines for inspection after i had removed the mite strips. the university gave me a clean bill of health [ no fungus, no spores of afb, efb, etc and no more mites]. the testing done wasn't just microscopically but a complete culture test. since i supply the university with nucs for the national beekeeping program, i'm regularly monitored and tested.
about 2 months after the clean bill of health, i noticed that some colonies were starting to decline. there were no specific symptoms aside from not having sealed brood. plenty of eggs and larva but no sealed brood. the adult bees didn't have deformed wings, the larva was pearly white, the eggs were floating in royal jelly. perplexed, i called the university and they sent out a team to check my colonies and take another sample. by this time i didn't have sealed brood in any of the boxes so they took comb and larva samples. they couldn't find anything from the samples taken. the colonies continued the decline and many started to abscond.
when i reported the absconding, it rang alarm bells because melifferas don't abscond as a rule. i was told to ask around if anyone had seen a colony of apis dorsata and true enough in the next farm there was a huge nest. i was told that what i had was trophilaelaps but by then i had lost all 30 colonies.
apis dorsata is the main host of trophilaelaps but the mites don't seem to bother them because of their migratory nature. the colony near me left after 2 months and i was told that it comes back yearly to the same tree.
as you can see from the picture, its much smaller than varroa and i'm told the larva looks like a piece of fine white thread which makes it very difficult to spot. it's much smaller than the egg of a queen.
the fact that its been attacking melliferas and destroying the colonies makes it alarming. apistan is supposed to kill these mites but i'm worried about the mites becoming resistant.
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the fact that its been attacking melliferas and destroying the colonies makes it alarming. apistan is supposed to kill these mites but i'm worried about the mites becoming resistant.
Our bee researcher wrote that trophilaelaps mite lives only 2 days outside the bee brood. If you make artificial swarm from hive, it will be cleaned totally. When brood have emerged mite will disapear when it has no where to go.
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But 5 years ago I lost 60% of my hives. On reson was dry summer but at least as big reason was that I had fluvinate resistant varroa population. I had 18 hives in previous spring and next spring I had 6 normal colonies and 5 coffee cup size. In autumn I started to use trickling.
Still with 6 normal hive and 5 coffee cup hive I got more honey than with those 18 hives. I took into use all the best tricks what I knew about beekeeping. And after that I changed whole my system and my yields jumped 80% and have stayed on that new level. - You perhaps know that in front of conpulsion even bleep lays eggs.
You see Finsky, that is one of the causes of the loss of colonies for me. My 4 colonies left have small winter cluster, but it is much larger than a coffee cup size, I should be grateful for that. I would say it is more like football. I know that is probably still not very big, but I am hoping that they will come through winter OK. I will be working very hard next year to ensure that the colonies are healthy, with no varroa mite present. I just never realized the enormous amount of damage that occurs with this pest. Probably the original 3 colonies that I had brought through the winter last year had them big time and were not treated well enough and passed the mites through to my new package colonies I installed last spring. Anyways, so many lessons learned the hard way. But I think if learned the hard way, one NEVER forgets, and brings forth wonderful and new knowledge to the next season of their beekeeping life.
What do you mean bleep lays eggs. Great Day. Cindi.
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Tig I looked at the pictures of the trophilaelaps (lesser mite also called), it is as ugly as the varroa. What a plague among bees, it sounds like it is even worse. I wonder if you will get reinfected as the apis dorsata will probably come back to the same place next year. What Finsky said about the trophilaelaps living outside of the brood for only 2 days sounds like what you should try to employ, about making swarms. Hope this all works out well for you next year Tig. Great day. Cindi
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Hi Cindy.. sorry about your bee's
How did the stores look on the dead & small hives?
Single hive bodies on these hives?
Did you do any feeding late fall?
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What is the best course of action for the small cluster hives?
Combine?
Put above large hive for the heat?
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Hi Cindy.. sorry about your bee's
How did the stores look on the dead & small hives?
Single hive bodies on these hives?
Did you do any feeding late fall?
What is the best course of action for the small cluster hives?
Combine?
Put above large hive for the heat?
thank you for your sorry Ken. Stores on the dead hives were lots and all hives too for that matter, lots of food. Single bodies on hives. they were reduced to one box around middle of October. Fed 2:1 s.s. for over one month until bees stopped taking it, which was when I reduced to one box.
There is 4 hives that have the "smaller" cluster, they have about 6 frames bees that are centred on the frames, so of course the bees do not cover the entire length of frame.
The one hive that has only 2 frames of bees. I don't know what. It is sad. I think that I am going to do an experiment with this hive. It will die for sure cause it is too small. It is really too bad about this little one too, because it had a REALLY, REALLY strong and prolific queen, it was one of the better laying queens that I had. So I think that today I am going to make a nuc hive and put the bees in it and bring it up onto my front porch that is open to the air. It is on the south side of my house, and would be very protected from wind and cold weather. It is not that cold, but it would increase heat for this little nuc. Before I put the bees in this nuc I am going to have the nuc at house temperature, so it will be nice and warm for them to be stuffed into. I will take the frames that they are on and put them in the middle of the nuc.
I don't know if this will work or not. I don't even know if this little colony is still alive. But nothing gained, nothing lost. It doesn't have a chance if I don't intervent somehow. I thought of combining. That would be good. But then I would lose the queen, and I know she is an excellent one. I thought of putting it on top of another hive for warmth too. But I think I will just make the nuc and try and baby it for a month or two. We will see. All about learning now isn't it? Great day. Cindi
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My 4 colonies left have small winter cluster, but it is much larger than a coffee cup size, I should be grateful for that. I would say it is more like football.
My hives were coffe cup size after winter but in autumn they were in two boxes, like basket ball.
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The one hive that has only 2 frames of bees. I don't know what. It is sad. I think that I am going to do an experiment with this hive. It will die for sure cause it is too small. .... it had a REALLY, REALLY strong and prolific queen, it was one of the better laying queens that I had.
I have wintered 2 frame nucs during three winters a experiment. There was 3 frames and I had 3 W terrarium heater during frost period and spring. They wintered splended in firewood shelter. That size colony has only value of queen. Without electrict heating 5 frame colony is minimum to winter succesfully.
in small hives room must be restricted to the size of winter cluster.
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Finsky, why did the hives lose so much of their population to go down from basketball to coffee cup size. Is this a normal winter loss in size? I get the impression that they built up very nicely for the next season though, correct? Great day. Cindi
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The one hive that has only 2 frames of bees. I don't know what. It is sad. I think that I am going to do an experiment with this hive. It will die for sure cause it is too small. .... it had a REALLY, REALLY strong and prolific queen, it was one of the better laying queens that I had.
I have wintered 2 frame nucs during three winters a experiment. There was 3 frames and I had 3 W terrarium heater during frost period and spring. They wintered splended in firewood shelter. That size colony has only value of queen. Without electrict heating 5 frame colony is minimum to winter succesfully.
in small hives room must be restricted to the size of winter cluster.
I did not get out to work with this "baby" sized colony today. Hope to tomorrow. so, I only have a 5 frame deep nuc box. I think you mean to have 2 frames of bees, 1 frame of honey/pollen. There will be room left over for 2 frames. Within this 2 frame cavity, so I fill it up with old leaves or something. I could put a wooden divider in beside the third frame to the leaves do not interfere with bees? Great day. Cindi
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Finsky, why did the hives lose so much of their population to go down from basketball to coffee cup size.
That happened on large area in Finland, Sweden and Germany in that year. The biggest reason was dry late summer. Bees did not get good quality pollen for raising winter bees. Bees were weak and got nosema and what ever. I had 4 splended hives in one site on outer yard and they all died.
Normal loss was 30% . Some beekeeprs lost 100%. My lost was 60%.
Here is my setup to tiny hive in April when snow is melting. I kept all winter electrict heating in this hive. Next summer 2006 it brought 200 lbs honey.
The idea is that hive must have whole box full of brood at the end of May and then is capable to get honey in main yield in July. It nees a couple of frames emerging bees from big hives at the beginning of may. I feed with pollen patty and warm up with electrict that big hives are able to row 3 times faster than in natural way. This has been my consept during 4 years after catastrophe.
Without help of emerging bee frames small colony is not able to build up soon enough. Sugar or pollen feeding helps nothing. Such a hive will be just a toy.
(http://bees.freesuperhost.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/tiny.jpg)
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I could put a wooden divider in beside the third frame to the leaves do not interfere with bees? Great day. Cindi
If you take extra frames off and put on boath side of bees styrofoam board piece. It keeps bees warm. Look picture.
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Finksy, I love that you take the time to offer so much help. That is amazing what you have done to save the bees.
Things are so different as far as weather is concerned where I live. an example is, right now, it is +6C, it is 5:30 A.M. It is not so cold as Finland. I think you are in a very very cold place. We are very temperate climate. It is raining, that keeps it much warmer. We had a very cold spell for a couple of weeks and it did not go below -3 C.
I do not think that I need the electric cables, because I think it may make the bees too warm. If they become too warm, then the concern is that they will think it is summer and maybe all come out and die? I don't know what temperature outside will kill the bees? Answer? These are things I do not know.
The picture is one taken on 24 April of this year. The colony bearding and the two right beside are the three that overwintered last winter. The one on left was the very strongest. I think that these 3 colonies may have had the varroa mite worse than I thought and passed it to the 4 packages that I installed in April last spring, just before this picture was taken.
I do not have styrofoam, but still wonder if I put in a wooden divider (which I have) and straw? I have straw, lots of it, we use it for bedding for rabbits and chickenhouses. Will that work as well as styrofoam?
By April we have strong, strong build-up, I will show picture of hive.
Your input is appreciated. Great day, Finsky. Cindi
(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/278/cimg1295in9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/51/apr2406eb2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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It is impossible to me to know where everybody lives.
Perhaps there in America you are not greed after money. It motivates to get good honey yield, - that greediness.
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What is the recipe for this drip? Also, a recent article in ABJ or BC, cant recall, said it is illegal in the US. Is this still the case?
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It is impossible to me to know where everybody lives.
Perhaps there in America you are not greed after money. It motivates to get good honey yield, - that greediness.
Finksy, no I think that there is lots of greed to get money here, and that is not wrong. Of course, I want to make some money this year, so I want to work hard to get my hives to start to pay back all the money that I have put into them for almost 2 years now. They need to work hard this year, I am not afraid to say that, I want to make them healthy for their sake, mine and for the sake of having success in my apiary, instead of such a failure that I witnessed this past season. Have an awesome day, Finsky. Cindi